garfield Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Corps that don't have the financial means to do full tours outside of their region. Transitioning these corps to more of a DCA model could improve their sustainability... allowing them to later grow to execute on a higher level and perform tours outside their region. As it is right now, many are draining their resources each season, rather than building up reserves for future growth. A quick peruse of the 990s reveals that most run hand-to-mouth each year, Dan, so I'm doubtful that this is a substantial basis for relegating corps to a lower class. This, combined with your desire to have all WC corps performing on a higher and more equal level the real motivation? Isn't this really all about draw potential, not the current financial stability of individual corps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 As mentioned before, BD and SCV manage to perform on the highest level. They also draw kids from all over the world, not their geographic region. The corps that I mentioned in southern california draw kids from the local area and are each competing against each other for talent, support of educators, resources within the area, etc. This makes no sense. Corps competing with one another makes no sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PioneerWebmaster Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Corps that don't have the financial means to do full tours outside of their region. Transitioning these corps to more of a DCA model could improve their sustainability... allowing them to later grow to execute on a higher level and perform tours outside their region. As it is right now, many are draining their resources each season, rather than building up reserves for future growth. The DCA/weekend/limited touring model may work for select corps, however the truth of the matter is the majority of the membership base wants to participate in a full tour. Jersey Surf's decision to migrate to an extended tour this season in place of the limited touring that they have done in past seasons highlights this fact. Their marching members voiced their opinion and the corps reacted appropriately. If we (Pioneer) made the decision to go to a weekends only schedule, I suspect that we would have even more difficultly recruiting quality members than we already do. We hear repeatedly that the kids that march with us do so because of the opportunity to participate in 25-30 shows. If we came out next year and said that we were only going to participate in 12 shows, I suspect that many of those members would choose to go to corps that were going on an extended tour. I also envision a scenario where even more kids end up on the couch because they can't get a spot in one of the top touring corps, but they don't want to do the weekend thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 The DCA/weekend/limited touring model may work for select corps, however the truth of the matter is the majority of the membership base wants to participate in a full tour. Jersey Surf's decision to migrate to an extended tour this season in place of the limited touring that they have done in past seasons highlights this fact. Their marching members voiced their opinion and the corps reacted appropriately. If we (Pioneer) made the decision to go to a weekends only schedule, I suspect that we would have even more difficultly recruiting quality members than we already do. We hear repeatedly that the kids that march with us do so because of the opportunity to participate in 25-30 shows. If we came out next year and said that we were only going to participate in 12 shows, I suspect that many of those members would choose to go to corps that were going on an extended tour. I also envision a scenario where even more kids end up on the couch because they can't get a spot in one of the top touring corps, but they don't want to do the weekend thing. Yeah, I've had plenty of students over the years who would rather take a lesser role at a smaller, non-finalist WC corps (for example, playing 3rd baritone, flag, or pit aux. instruments) than have a 'higher' (in their opinion) role in a high achieving OC corps (for example, weapons/dance soloist, lead baritone/soloist, or snare line) just because of the touring schedule. It seems more enticing for a lot of potential members to be on the road all summer than to do limited, more local touring. If we're talking financials, DCI has an auditing system to help ensure corps in WC have the financial means to support the tour, and there are obviously OC corps who prefer the limited touring that is more financially viable for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 There are a lot of corps in DCI right now that are better suited to weekend only. Oh? After all, you're all about "quality" well "quality" will suffer when you go weekends only compared to what they do now. Sometimes I think you argue to hear yourself argue, even when your argument shoots yourself in the foot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 A lot of people don't make money because they think it is hard. It's not really hard... just some people work their ### off on the wrong things or in the wrong way. It's not as difficult as you think. No idea... but, if they had more cash... they would probably place higher. Look at the differences in the amount of cash the top corps generate compared to everyone else (this comes from OUTSIDE performance revenues). It should be pretty obvious what is behind their competitive success. If corps want to place higher.... make more cash. Actually, no... there's just one factor... money. Yes, I'm ...um... lazy. :-) What is naive is to think that best practices in business can and should not apply to the business of drum corps, that it is some unique sort of thing... that should somehow be different. The only reason why best practices in business are not easily adapted to drum corps is because of the mentality that they have been doing something a certain way for a number of years, so, that must mean that is the best way to do it. He was talking about rich as in cash money. you do realize some of the hihest placing corps in DCI are not the most stable financially right? generating cash doesnt make one great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I've seen the corps perform. Not really my sort of thing... so, not much interested in digging deeper. Cadets2 will be an interesting experiment. If it works... this could be the way forward for many corps in DCI's current open class. As I mentioned... set a higher minimum standard for DCI, and a higher minimum standard for world class. The corps that I originally suggested as making up the A Class... now thinking the DCA model might be a better fit for them... and DCI adding a youth class might not be a bad idea. When was the last time you saw a DCA corps live at the end of the season? You've put your misconceptions of DCA out here time and time again, been corrected, and still keep spouting them. For someone so into researching how to do things right, you'd think you'd actually research DCA some before you continued to speak as you do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 They could create some different divisions, right? Like Drum Corps West, South, Midwest, and East? Each one could have their own mid-season regional championship event, and then all of the corps could come together for some all-region touring for the last three weeks of the season. It would create community, save the corps a boatload in travel expenses, and further interest in your local 'regional' corps, right? Heck, you could even have regional I & E competitions and maybe even a social event on the day after the regional championships end and before full DCI tour begins, right? I must be some kind of genius. I marched back in 'those' days, loved it like most of you undoubtedly did, and wasn't here for the discussion as to why it went away. Can someone enlighten me? Was it simply poor management? Something else? $$$. except they thought it would come in more and go out less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Sometimes I think you argue to hear yourself argue, even when your argument shoots yourself in the foot Yeah, I think this nails it. The more I read from danielray (which is becoming less and less, and now mostly just when people quote him because, frankly, I think he's far exceeded his depth of legit understanding of the activity), the more I'm convinced he is a person who has had some sporadic marginal business success and thinks that + business theory is the perfect answer to radically changing DCI. It seems to me that would be like me, a person who has had marginal success as a percussionist and music teacher, claiming that I have all of the answers for raising Yamaha's business and production practices. I guess at the very least danielray sticks to his ideas (as misguided and uninformed as they may be) and genuinely seems to want to improve things for the better. He's kind of like Herman Cain, where he's thinking outside of the box and proposing very broad ideas that might sound interesting on the surface but once they're fleshed out a bit more you realize the ideas really don't offer or hold much of a logical or practical solution. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Oh? After all, you're all about "quality" well "quality" will suffer when you go weekends only compared to what they do now. Sometimes I think you argue to hear yourself argue, even when your argument shoots yourself in the foot I was suggesting that weekend corps maybe join DCA.. not participate in DCA. This would mean less corps in DCI total... but along my original proposal of raising the criteria for WC and OC, and creating an A class... instead... corps that could not meet a revised OC criteria would maybe find another outlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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