jjeffeory Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Thanks! People are saying "Vanguard is back!" They aren't quite. Their percussion and brass programs are MUCH better. Yet somehow visual is down - including guard. A few years ago visual was a driver with their program including a top notch guard. This isn't a question of balance. IMO this is a question of a visual program that is suddenly sub-par with brass and percussion - not equal. It's not about taming drill and better placements, it's about making drill almost anonymous in comparison to other captions. They are the VANGUARD and that means a lot. I don't care what judges think. I am a huge fan of Vanguard and have been since I watched them first on the 1981 DCI Midwest broadcast on PBS and then in person during their subsequent tour through Ontario into Quebec. Hmm, maybe they'll get Gaines next year? He's local to the Bay area after all... No rumor starting here, just a thought that had occurred to me a few times... Honestly, I'm more concerned with the Cavaliers right now than SCV. If drill design is the problem, it will be addressed next. I think they'll be fine and it's early. Few of the drill designs this year have been as stellar as drill we have seen in the past. Maybe it's faster than it has ever been ( not really), maybe staged well ( sure)... But they're not too many wow drills this year... Perhaps Cadets... Perhaps Crown if they weren't dirty... Generally I see lots of motion, but not lots of great effect. This goes for most of the corps... Now watch someone minus me... Edited July 6, 2012 by jjeffeory 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Now watch someone minus me... I'm sure there is a way to unplug that feature here...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Even if people are critical of Pete, you have to admit that this year is an improvement. Maybe not 2009 or 2007 good, but still very good. There is much more connection between the musical and visual parts. The staging is much better as well, the complaints about keeping the low brass hidden in the back seem to be very alleviated. The bari/euphs have a feature that places some of them in front of the sideline, and the tubas spend tons of time up front. Some of the staging work and input comes from the brass staff and guard staff, since they can make sure their kids are on the best foot to perform their show as strongly as possible. If there is a cohesive design and teaching staff, then they will make sure that all of the parts work together to produce the best product. I happen to like Pete's drill and Michael Gaines' drill much more than Jay Murphy's, but that's just personal opinion. No need to all get that heated about things. (Quick note, I've marched Pete's drill. It's good stuff to march) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Yet Myron Rosander has a higher average Vis GE placement and that's counting the 2005 disaster. But that's not truly fair. Pete has been writing since 2006, giving him 6 years, where Myron wrote for almost 20, correct? We'll have to re-examine I guess after that time, correct? And since leaving SCV, Myron really hasn't had any top 5 drills out there. (Phantom 2010, Blue Stars 2012, were there others?) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 But that's not truly fair. Pete has been writing since 2006, giving him 6 years, where Myron wrote for almost 20, correct? We'll have to re-examine I guess after that time, correct? And since leaving SCV, Myron really hasn't had any top 5 drills out there. (Phantom 2010, Blue Stars 2012, were there others?) I believe he wrote for Madison in 2006, not 100% sure on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Pete Weber is, in my opinion, one of the top visual minds working in drum corps today. I consider 2009 in particular to be a masterpiece of coordination between music and drill. The complaints about staging are understandable, and I do sometimes hear them from bona fide Vanguard marchers and staff members . . . though when I do they frame at as more of a quirk rather than some debilitating flaw. Plenty of our top corps have flaws in their drill designs as well. As a previous poster said, one corps focuses so much on staging that they forgo "wow" moments. Another seems to operate under the assumption that marching drill at 500 bpm represents the pinnacle of good design. I'll take a flawed but interesting Weber drill over those any day of the week. Yes, Vanguard hasn't received the same visual effect scores under Weber that they did under Rosander, but drill is just one part of a visual effect score. And not necessarily the most important part (this has been especially true in recent years). On the other hand, since Weber began writing Vanguard has undergone many chances. Directors, administrators, designers, and instructors have come and gone. But Weber is still there, and I think that speaks volumes . . . more so than scores, certainly more than an anonymous griper on DCP. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayesha3 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Congrats to SCV for breaking 80 tonight in Waukee! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywords Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 some good singing since it was raining at rehearsal 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scvjesse Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) There's been a lot of Weber vs Myron debate going on here. Both drills are admirable. If you wanted to point out stark differences, they are this: Myron wrote a lot of very difficult, fast paced, straight line drill. Michael Cesario called it "whip-lash drill". Weber writes a lot of slower-but-developing "fancy" (for lack of better term) drill. Here's the difference. Myron knew how to create a theme in his drill. Myron also knew how to write big drill moves at the end of every big production to create great visual effect. I have yet to see that from Weber, but that doesn't mean it's not within him to do it. Let me just say this, as an alumni that this directly affects since I marched that year (for most of it anyway).... SCV took a huge nose-dive visually in 2002 when they brought in a bunch of new guys and got rid of the HARD FLANKS that SCV was known for since their very beginnings. They told us that we had to do our direction turns softly. While this shouldn't effect a professional corps like SCV, it turned us from a corps that loved visual into a corps that focused on the music because the visual part was boring. This has not changed since. All I can say is... SCV's brass and percussion are top notch this year. They are possibly top 3, both of them, by finals. But their visual is garbage. They know that. They have to find a way to ignite a flame under their butts to get it into gear. What's great SCV visual? I know that when I saw that close up of the first block in SCV 1998's opener do that hard flank going from east to north, that did it for me. You all can see it on the fan network at the 1:03 mark. It's a bit different than the video I received, but it captures the spirit. It got me hyped up on the visual part of it. What do they have now that hypes them up on the visual aspect of their show? Perhaps a recent member can clue me into this, if there is anything. However, if you look at the scores in the last 8 years, visual has consistently been a thorn in their butt. This has nothing to do with Weber vs Myron. It's entirely about pride. Once they figure that out, SCV will be back in the top 4.... if not medaling consistently again.... pronto. /cheers SCV! Edited July 11, 2012 by scvjesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schimmy Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Let me just say this, as an alumni that this directly affects since I marched that year (for most of it anyway).... SCV took a huge nose-dive visually in 2002 when they brought in a bunch of new guys and got rid of the HARD FLANKS that SCV was known for since their very beginnings. They told us that we had to do our direction turns softly. While this shouldn't effect a professional corps like SCV, it turned us from a corps that loved visual into a corps that focused on the music because the visual part was boring. This has not changed since. One of the great things about Santa Clara is the traditions. One of the bad things about Santa Clara is the traditions. The truth is drum corps evolves. With the increased velocity and visual demands it made sense to alter the visual style so that horns wouldn't crack while changing directions. The problem was that many of the corps members refused to make the adjustment and there were very noticeable differences in marching styles on the field. The same thing happened when the corps adopted the straight legged technique and again with the current technique. When I was a staff member of Vanguard Cadets someone, (I think he was from the Cascades), said he knew that the Vanguard was on the same campus when he saw our running block. This was one of the best compliments I have ever heard as it showed that the intensity that we put into everything we did was being noticed. It doesn't matter what technique is being taught, or if you're wearing white bucks, or whatever traditional thing you can think of, the members need to find the motivation to get the technique down and get the show clean. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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