GUARDLING Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Believe me, I'm not messing with you. I'm from Boston. The guard of the 27th Lancers, where Zingali's early brilliance was first seen, is exactly what I'd love to see again. as a personal friend of George I can tell you he and others pushed the boundries which lead to todays activity...he and others would not be doing what they did back in the 70s or 80s..they knew it was time to move on....you also say tear the house down with the old work..yeah maybe for some of us but for todays drum corps person...im not so sure of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearlsnaredrummer77 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 What does the 'DCI crowd' have to do with letting DCA do something? DCA corps as a group decide just what they want DCA corps to be. Mike, I wasn't entirely serious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearlsnaredrummer77 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) if you think DCA hasnt changed youre wrong and as far as the newer bells and whistles DCA will follow at some point...There are way to many cross over staffs and new and younger members that wont be ignored....Even alumni....i heard it just yesterday how some members of a very popular alumni corps are so sick and tired of playing the same STUFF from the 50s and 60s and 70s.My original question was to find out which decade because its funny one decade said the same about the next how it wasnt drum corps for one reason or anotherand how many people pick a decade on what they think drum corps is or should be.......I say just because its not the drum corps we may have marched in doesnt mean its not drum corps.....Why on earth do SOME drum corps people think that Drum corps is immune to any change and that in 30, 40 50 years that it wouldnt and shouldnt change.. HAsnt the rest of the world. Drum Corps ALSO in pleasing and audiance MUST please and accomodate its members and members today demand alot more of their experience than we did...thats a fact. AS far as the equation that you think everyone wins.......Talk to many of the DCA younger members..and staff..theres MANY that wouldnt agree. Lets do away with the straw man argument. Just because some folks prefer a traditional brass/percussion instrumental line-up doesn't mean they are some how frozen in the era when they marched. (Personally I would rather march in the 60s-rather than the 80s-if I could go back in a time machine) I would never say that DCA (or drum corps in general) hasn't changed. I expect drum corps to evolve. But the change that occurred was within a brass/percussion paradigm. Since the 1930s, the instruments on the parade route or competition field were either relatives of the brass or percussion families. Synthesizers are not part of the brass family nor are they percussion instruments although they can emulate both. Will the synths come to DCA? To paraphrase Ben Franklin "nothing is inevitable except for death and taxes." Edited January 29, 2012 by pearlsnaredrummer77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Lets do away with the straw man argument. Just because some folks prefer a traditional brass/percussion instrumental line-up doesn't mean they are some how frozen in the era when they marched. (Personally I would rather march in the 60s-rather than the 80s-if I could go back in a time machine) I would never say that DCA (or drum corps in general) hasn't changed. I expect drum corps to evolve. But the change that occurred was within a brass/percussion paradigm. Since the 1930s, the instruments on the parade route or competition field were either relatives of the brass or percussion families. Synthesizers are not part of the brass family nor are they percussion instruments although they can emulate both. Will the synths come to DCA? To paraphrase Ben Franklin "nothing is inevitable except for death and taxes." I appreciate that you love drum corps brass/ drums etc etc..but that alone dosnt define the activity at all. Some would like to belive it but it doesnt.IMO And noone said all people who like brass the way it was is stuck in time although you have indicated in your posts that you may be ..which is fine but doesnt mean the activity needs to be...JMO.....You also seem to leave out in your response even the DCA and Alumni people..maybe not all but enough are tired of the old also.You mentioned that chage and evolving is ok but with the brass and percussion paradigm..well let me ask you...and?...we arent the keepers of the holy grail and dont get to decide how it will go on. We dont have to like a change BUT its theirs to decide how it will evolve..Why would we get a vote in it. You were the one who said that you want DCI to leave DCA alone..leave things as they are...Kinda indicates you dont want the activity to move forward and as i said thats cool..just dont expect it. Again..we are all entitled to our likes and dislikes and opinions and should be respected for them BUT as i said thats all they are and we can like or dislike the activity at this point. For me and I dont speak for anyone I love the direction and the fact that there much more interesting things to listen to as well as see......again.....JMO peace Edited January 29, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindap Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Believe me, I'm not messing with you. I'm from Boston. The guard of the 27th Lancers, where Zingali's early brilliance was first seen, is exactly what I'd love to see again. I’m in a mood to write Apologies in advance of this lengthy glimpse of points in time, long ago, from my perspective. Was born and raised in Cabbagetown mid 50’s to mid 60’s, moved to the east side in 67 after which I was introduced to Drum Corps. Shortly after Debbie and I joined fall of 68, we started preparing for a winter guard contest, girls on guard, boys on horns and drums. Guard contests were structured and each guard had to comply with Pass in Review, Flag Presentation and Posting of Colors protocol. We would often sweat in the small gym donned with wool jackets, shakos, leather boots, heavy flags on 8 foot poles with pikes in conjunction with intense competition. I loved marching summer of 69 in the open air with the exception of concert when we had to stand still while the horns and drums park and blow. It was hard to be motionless, logistically during a heavy gale and emotionally as when the music was good, we just wanted to dance. I was offered the opportunity to teach our feeder corps 71-72; my summer job was a playground leader for Moss Park Apartments. It was the start of my guard tech experience for about 8 guards that spanned 15 years. I recall one winter, 73 I think, when the guard said “We’re bored!” In hindsight, we had been together for over 2 years, found rehearsals repetitive and I was tired of hearing my own voice. Each girl was asked to run half hour warmup, in rotation, for the remainder of the year and each warmup was to be different. Kerry showed us moves from her Karate class, one had shown us basic ballet, another taught us yoga and so on. I was no longer a winter guard tech, I was a facilitator. Once the guard explored movement, enjoyed moving and had fun, there was no turning back. I moved west in the fall of 76 to find work as the east was experiencing a recession, found a full time job plus was a staff member for AAG evenings and weekends for the ‘B’ corps, the ‘A’ corps and our winter guard program which started November 76. The staff consisted of Melanie (captain), myself, Pam and Stanley Knaub, our consultant. In September 2011, I was given a DVD of a documentary of a guard contest filmed on Feb 26-27, 1977 in Seattle Washington. During that weekend, Stanley was our consultant, a Drifters staff member, performer with Open All Knights and instructor/choreographer for The Imperials, all 4 were in Seattle that weekend, all 4 had different styles. My reflections are: 1. 1977 Drifters were a young, yet poised guard, possibly their 2nd year in competition. The guard had mostly female and 2 male members and performed to Water Music. It was a lovely program. 2. AAG were in their first year as winter guard and were from an all-girl drum corps…we had quite a few members from the drum line, some from the horn line and a few from summer guard. We wore top hats and tails and had a kick line during the tune of Don’t Rain on my Parade. 3. Open All Knights aka OAKs were an instructor guard, all male with the exception of one female, had provided a show of excellent equipment skills, outstanding performances and comic relief as they performed a parody. I laughed so hard, I had tears of joy. 4. In Feb 77, we had watched The Imperials rehearse in Seattle and were in awe. Over 3 years, they had matured to be the classiest and most expressive guard, in equipment and movement. Their program was an exquisite interpretation of the Pines of Rome. The Imperials captain, Mary, was interviewed in the documentary. Her words were, “This is the year we’ve been waiting for because we’ve been trying for years building up and this is the year that we’re doing the kind of show we want to do and every girl is into what we’re doing.” I’ve often wondered if the tides of change came from within the hearts and minds of the performers. In my experience, I’ve found those that were comfortable with what they were presenting, were able to project a believable performance and in return, the audience received variety in show design and exceptional, heartfelt performances. I posted the Feb 26-27, 1977 program and 50 stills from the documentary called ‘A Weekend Happening’ on Color Guard Planet. Here’s a still of Seattle Marksmen warming up in the hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 George Zingali was a genius and an innovator and he did push the boundaries of drum corps. I agree that if he were still with us, he would not be doing the same things today as he did in the past. Just look at how different his work with the Cadets was from what he did with 27th, or how different his work with Star was as compared to Cadets. I am not anti-modern drum corps. The talent of many corps is phenomenal. I would just like to see some corps have color guards that are color guards and not dance teams that happen to pick up a flag or rifle from time to time. Musically Madison goes retro every now and then and audiences love it. Phantom resurrected “Elsa’s Procession” last year and for many it was what and made the show. I’d be willing to bet a retro style color guard could also work and they’d still be competitive. as a personal friend of George I can tell you he and others pushed the boundries which lead to todays activity...he and others would not be doing what they did back in the 70s or 80s..they knew it was time to move on....you also say tear the house down with the old work..yeah maybe for some of us but for todays drum corps person...im not so sure of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Mike, I wasn't entirely serious... Oh...my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindap Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 George Zingali was a genius and an innovator and he did push the boundaries of drum corps. I agree that if he were still with us, he would not be doing the same things today as he did in the past. Just look at how different his work with the Cadets was from what he did with 27th, or how different his work with Star was as compared to Cadets. I am not anti-modern drum corps. The talent of many corps is phenomenal. I would just like to see some corps have color guards that are color guards and not dance teams that happen to pick up a flag or rifle from time to time. Musically Madison goes retro every now and then and audiences love it. Phantom resurrected “Elsa’s Procession” last year and for many it was what and made the show. I’d be willing to bet a retro style color guard could also work and they’d still be competitive. George Zingali and Stanley Knaub had collaborated together on a number of projects over the years. Both were brilliant and talented, imo. Phantom did the "Rockford File" in 2011 and the move by the Marksmen in the photo above, similar to 27th Lancers move, was done by Santa Clara Vanguard in 2011. Both guards paid tribute to the past in a respectful manner, imo. It was a delight for me to see those moves! Thank you Phantom and SCV :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 George Zingali was a genius and an innovator and he did push the boundaries of drum corps. I agree that if he were still with us, he would not be doing the same things today as he did in the past. Just look at how different his work with the Cadets was from what he did with 27th, or how different his work with Star was as compared to Cadets. I am not anti-modern drum corps. The talent of many corps is phenomenal. I would just like to see some corps have color guards that are color guards and not dance teams that happen to pick up a flag or rifle from time to time. Musically Madison goes retro every now and then and audiences love it. Phantom resurrected “Elsa’s Procession” last year and for many it was what and made the show. I’d be willing to bet a retro style color guard could also work and they’d still be competitive. But they did Elsa's in terms of 2011, not way-back-when. A guard as you describe it would be so limited as compared to the rest...how could they ever receive a high score? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Musically the two “Elsa” arrangements are remarkably similar. I'm sure adjustments had to be made due to key changes since 1979 (Key of G then, B-flat now). The drill in 2011 was different, but that’s to be expected. Madison may the better example. They’ve done “Slaughter” and “Malaguena” more than once, no two arrangements are identical. They take a standard and make it new. That’s what I’m suggesting for color guards. I’m not saying to take an old routine and duplicate it. That wouldn’t work. Take the tradition and bring it to life in 2012 with rifles and flags. Keep dancing and props to a minimum. How can it earn high scores? First, it has to be well done. That’s the job of instructors. Second, it has to be done on an innovative way. That’s the job of the design team. I’m not saying it will happen, I’m just saying I’d like to see it. To quote a song title: “Everything old is new again.” But they did Elsa's in terms of 2011, not way-back-when. A guard as you describe it would be so limited as compared to the rest...how could they ever receive a high score? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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