reallyoldfrt Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) "All I read was, "We can't make enough money to be good blahblahblahblahblah..." It sounded great until it was stated that money and placement were PROVEN to be equated. There is a reason some corps aren't here anymore." TimK is right. drillman might want to work on his reading comprehension skills. Edited January 28, 2012 by reallyoldfrt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillmanSop06 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Before we jump to quick conclusions, keep in mind that the person who wrote this letter mentioned mortgaging his home to keep his corps alive. George Bonfiglio spent off season as a public school teacher. Most teachers I know struggle to pay a first mortgage, speak less of multiple mortgages where the funds are given to a non-profit organization. 27th would have had a difficult time raising the necessary funds to keep afloat at the time it disbanded. The economy was in rough shape nationally, the “Massachusetts Miracle” was not as spectacular as it was hyped to be, and many non-profits were in a similar bind. It happened to North Star a few years earlier and Boston Crusaders almost folded at the same time. Ironically, the end of 27th may have been what saved BAC. Many drum corps alums and fans mourned the loss of so many beloved corps and wanted to make sure at least one of the greats survived. There may be good reasosn why some corps did not survive, but to me the loss of most corps is rather sad. It is stupid to mortgage one's house for drum corps. That's not passion; that's obsession. "All I read was, "We can't make enough money to be good blahblahblahblahblah..." It sounded great until it was stated that money and placement were PROVEN to be equated. There is a reason some corps aren't here anymore." TimK is right. drillman might want to work on his reading comprehension skills. Nothing in his post suggested that I misread anything in the letter. His, unlike yours, provided valuable insight into how things were going at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Before we jump to quick conclusions, keep in mind that the person who wrote this letter mentioned mortgaging his home to keep his corps alive. George Bonfiglio spent off season as a public school teacher. Most teachers I know struggle to pay a first mortgage, speak less of multiple mortgages where the funds are given to a non-profit organization. 27th would have had a difficult time raising the necessary funds to keep afloat at the time it disbanded. The economy was in rough shape nationally, the “Massachusetts Miracle” was not as spectacular as it was hyped to be, and many non-profits were in a similar bind. It happened to North Star a few years earlier and Boston Crusaders almost folded at the same time. Ironically, the end of 27th may have been what saved BAC. Many drum corps alums and fans mourned the loss of so many beloved corps and wanted to make sure at least one of the greats survived. There may be good reasosn why some corps did not survive, but to me the loss of most corps is rather sad. Know of a corps that reformed a few years earlier and a couple of Board members floated some big personal loans to get the needed equipment. Not sure if mortgages were involved but took many years to pay things off. As for 27th, my feeling is as expenses exploded in 70s/80s, they were one of many who bit the dust due to costs. GB just held out a few years longer by really putting his personal finances in the red. Ton of corps in both circuits went under for the same reason during that era as the "local corps" concept pretty much died off. Never would have realized how much things had changed and why they changed if I hadn't been with BoD and other long time members while this was going on with the Sr corps. Let's not also forget that second(?) place a few years earlier..... Edited January 28, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyoldfrt Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Know of a corps that reformed a few years earlier and a couple of Board members floated some big personal loans to get the needed equipment. Not sure if mortgages were involved but took many years to pay things off. As for 27th, my feeling is as expenses exploded in 70s/80s, they were one of many who bit the dust due to costs. GB just held out a few years longer by really putting his personal finances in the red. Ton of corps in both circuits went under for the same reason during that era as the "local corps" concept pretty much died off. Never would have realized how much things had changed and why they changed if I hadn't been with BoD and other long time members while this was going on with the Sr corps. Let's not also forget that second(?) place a few years earlier..... I believe that driving financially marginal corps into going bankrupt was part of the overall DCI Master plan for getting the activity where they wanted it to be. In my opinion they, DCI, took drum corps away from tens of thousands more kids than they ever gave it to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphaba01 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I believe that driving financially marginal corps into going bankrupt was part of the overall DCI Master plan for getting the activity where they wanted it to be. In my opinion they, DCI, took drum corps away from tens of thousands more kids than they ever gave it to. "DCI's 'Master Plan'": This is not as nuts or as far fetched as it may at first seem. It was actually said, in high level DCI "Management" circles that there were "Too Many Drum Corps" back in the 1970's. They don't have to worry about THAT anymore.... Elphaba WWW 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Many, though not all of the comments thus far have been insightful and give historical perspective. I wouldn’t be surprised if DCI did believe there were too many corps in the 1970’s. Some local circuits did too. The cost of running a band, drum corps, or drill team that competed was getting higher, people who always came through with funds “for the kids” couldn’t come through anymore, parades and car washes didn’t make as much money as they once did, and many corps were underperforming. Competitions were very lopsided, and for members of corps (or bands and drill teams) that consistently placed at the bottom of the pack, low scores even when giving all you’ve got could be disheartening. I think merging corps to create healthier, more competitive units was a good idea in theory, and when you look at corps such as North Star, Seneca Optimists, or Oakland Crusaders, it seemed like an idea that would work. Obviously that’s not the case, unless you’re talking about Crossmen. Times changed very quickly for drum corps, too fast to look at the problem and come up with solutions. We’ve done a great job at defining the problem, now what’s the solution? We know many of the great directors had vision, we know that some of the decisions made by DCI, whether intentional or unintentional, did not work out as planned. We know costs are high and relying on volunteers alone is unrealistic. We’ve learned from the demise of past corps we have to be future oriented. We know we can’t resurrect the corps that are gone. Professionally activities for young people occupy a great deal of my time, I know the difference between development and fundraising and the importance of both for youth activities. I also know the importance of teaching values and life lessons and having activities that can teach these lessons. I believe that drum corps can provide these values. There are challenges that have nothing to do with money, namely recruitment. AAU athletic teams which come in all varieties and stripes offer travelling teams that offer the excitement of competition. Theater and arts programs are far more sophisticated and serve as more than a vehicle for an activity for someone who doesn’t fit to find a home. In other words, how do we compete with other activities that are very different but offer the some of the same experiences that drum corps once did? So, are we serious about “saving drum corps?” Are there people who can pull it off, are there people who know how to do it, and is there a community looking for the activity? Are we willing to support such an endeavor? Keep in mind as I say this, asking questions is the easy part. Finding solutions is the greater challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I believe that driving financially marginal corps into going bankrupt was part of the overall DCI Master plan for getting the activity where they wanted it to be. In my opinion they, DCI, took drum corps away from tens of thousands more kids than they ever gave it to. IMO, touring model added more nails to the coffin but Sr corps died off at a horrible rate too from late 60s-early 80s. Maybe my retirement project will be to collect data to compare percentages. As far as master plans... I ain't goin' there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Golden Era corps (1979-1989) had their own identities... I told myself that I wasn't going to get reeled into in the o.p.'s tiresome diatribe. But I've heard this complaint before and it continues to wear me out - the notion that corps in the amorphous "golden age," (although in this case the o.p. has at least taken the trouble to define it) had identifiable characteristics of sound, style, appearance, etc. that are lacking in today's "cookie cutter" (to use that overworked derogatory term) units. Please, be serious. Would any reasonably knowledgeable follower of the activity confuse recent editions of the Cadets with Crown, or Blue Devils with Phantom,whether from a standpoint of appearance or programming/performance? Peace, Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BariBrian Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Well,, I can't speak for everyone that see's the activity and would never generalize to make my point, but I will say in my opinion, Corps in general, have lost a lot their Individuality. Of course there are exceptions as you mentioned, but, like it or not, there was a time, when you didn't have to look at the uniform to know who was playing. I respect your argument (all be it a little on the bitter side) but, I speak what I believe to be the truth, and I believe many in the activity that have been around as instructors or Admin, or even had marched in those times feel this way. It isn't an attack on the corps themselves. They are fantastic and so incredibly talented. And I'm not saying that there is no originality. Just not a huge variety in styles, again, IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Well,, I can't speak for everyone that see's the activity and would never generalize to make my point, but I will say in my opinion, Corps in general, have lost a lot their Individuality. Of course there are exceptions as you mentioned, but, like it or not, there was a time, when you didn't have to look at the uniform to know who was playing. I respect your argument (all be it a little on the bitter side) but, I speak what I believe to be the truth, and I believe many in the activity that have been around as instructors or Admin, or even had marched in those times feel this way. It isn't an attack on the corps themselves. They are fantastic and so incredibly talented. And I'm not saying that there is no originality. Just not a huge variety in styles, again, IMHO Likewise, no personal disrespect intended - but I too speak what I feel to be the truth. And I believe the "cookie cutter" argument generally reflects little more than a dissatisfaction with current stylistic trends, a bitterness (there's that word!) that the activity as it is currently constituted no longer conforms to a lost-and-longed-for stylistic or philosophical model. It's a "good old days" point of view: "There was a time, when..." Let's face it, most folks are familiar with and enjoy what's contemporary to their own "golden era," and dismissive of less familiar styles, be they earlier or later. My own expertise runs from the late 60s to the early '90s, when I marched, taught, toured, and was generally on the scene. I'll readily admit that I wouldn't know the Bracken Cavaliers from St. Vincent's Cadets (before my day), and likewise would have a hard time pinning down details of the late '90's (when my active involvement began to wind down). But it's not because those corps "all sound the same" as the others in their time period. It's just that I'm not familiar with them. Heck, there are a zillion folks who couldn't tell Mozart from Tchaikowsky, or Amy Winehouse from Katy Perry. Likewise with today's corps. I pose the question again: who are the sound-alikes among the current practitioners of our art? Would you really have a hard time telling the Scouts from the Cavaliers, Crossmen from Pioneer, with your back turned? Would you mistake the 2010 Blue Devils for anyone else? Sorry, I can't buy it. Thanks for the dialogue, Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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