DrillmanSop06 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 From a design standpoint, nearly all the BOA finalists had better programs than all but a handful of DCI corps. Not better performed. Not more entertaining. Not better execution. But better programs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 From a design standpoint, nearly all the BOA finalists had better programs than all but a handful of DCI corps. Not better performed. Not more entertaining. Not better execution. But better programs. I agree with this. I think arguably the top BOA groups performed better programs comparably with several Semifinalist corps. Obviously this discussion is moot, since many of the best BOA individual students populate the top DCI corps. I always kind of thought that the Top DCI WC corps would beat any other circuit's top units significantly, and the Top BOA bands would be able to compete with the middle-lower tiered Semifinal/Prelims groups. Blue Stars last year competed with a significantly watered-down version of a top BOA program, and I think the original version (from Tarpon Springs a few years ago) might've edged out Blue Stars: Blue Stars were better but I think Tarpon Springs performed well enough to compensate, and with a better designed show I think they would (barely) edge out a win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmjfelts1988 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) You know? I was the last doof who started a thread like this and since then I've done some homework and came to the following conclusion. Broken Arrow and The Colts both had the same hit in their show in 2011 from Swan Lake and...well...here... Check out Broken Arrow's hit at 3:54... Then check out The Colts hit at :53 ... I mean, you can't get a more direct comparison than that. The 2011 BOA National Champion and the 2011 DCI 16th Place Semifinalist doing the exact same hit in almost the exact same manner. And clearly.....THE COLTS WIN! Just listen to the fullness of The Colts sound in comparison to the holes that are in Broken Arrow's sound. Broken Arrow is GREAT (my favorite BOA show EVER)...but the obvious is still the obvious. And this was only mid July for the Colts at a rehearsal out of uniform...and it's still obvious. Case Settled! Edited June 6, 2012 by bmjfelts1988 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I'm not saying it would fair any better than the video of Broken Arrow posted above, but their BOA Nationals finals run was SO MUCH TIGHTER than that encore run video. Still would fair about the same, just thought I would throw that out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I marched DCI with people that marched in the very top BOA bands... as great as BOA bands are, the kids I talked to said the level of demand and attention to detail is not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillmanSop06 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 You know? I was the last doof who started a thread like this and since then I've done some homework and came to the following conclusion. Broken Arrow and The Colts both had the same hit in their show in 2011 from Swan Lake and...well...here... Check out Broken Arrow's hit at 3:54... Then check out The Colts hit at :53 ... I mean, you can't get a more direct comparison than that. The 2011 BOA National Champion and the 2011 DCI 16th Place Semifinalist doing the exact same hit in almost the exact same manner. And clearly.....THE COLTS WIN! Just listen to the fullness of The Colts sound in comparison to the holes that are in Broken Arrow's sound. Broken Arrow is GREAT (my favorite BOA show EVER)...but the obvious is still the obvious. And this was only mid July for the Colts at a rehearsal out of uniform...and it's still obvious. Case Settled! NO ONE is debating that the level of musicianship, execution, technique, etc. is better in BOA. NO ONE! Now, you might argue a Broken Arrow vs. last place Open Class comparison, sure. No one SHOULD, though. I'm willing to argue that Broken Arrow's overall design is better than the Colts' overall design. It's evident in the hit; look at what the Broken Arrow kids are doing with that hit visually vs. what the Colts are doing. I'm a Colts homer, no doubt. But Broken Arrow designs better than even most finalist corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillmanSop06 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I'm not saying it would fair any better than the video of Broken Arrow posted above, but their BOA Nationals finals run was SO MUCH TIGHTER than that encore run video. Still would fair about the same, just thought I would throw that out there. Phantom's 2008 finals performance was better than their victory run. I'm nearly positive the same could be said of any corps; good point but not necessary or game-changing here. I marched DCI with people that marched in the very top BOA bands... as great as BOA bands are, the kids I talked to said the level of demand and attention to detail is not even close. Of course it isn't. The difference isn't in execution (DCI corps could probably win BOA on technical merit alone) but in design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 You high school marching band is very nice, perhaps you should take solace in that fact alone if not, just look at your pay check or the smile on your kids' face 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralTsoChicken Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 If standing around and not having movement during crucial parts of your show is---"good design"--- than I guess that BOA is better designed than DCI. They don't move as much as DCI groups, because they can't---and maintain the level of execution needed to be competetative. As for one being designed better than the other...which produces a better picture? A black and white dot matrix printer, or a full on ink jet printer. When the limits to the design are stretched farther (much like DCI), there is a much greater opportunity for better design. Musically, I do think the BOA groups are at an advantage with this, because every single instrument is at their disposal. These are high school kids. Kids that are in class. Kids that are living the high school experience. Going home and sleeping in their own bed. Participating in other activities. Some not very interested in band (just in it because of their friends). Comparing BOA with such a singular activity as DCI is not fair to either. Mostly because no matter what, someone gets slighted. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I think I have mentioned this before in other threads, but at one time there were bands and drum corps competing in local circuits in the Boston area and I believe the same may hold true for New York and New Jersey, though I'm not certain. In the Boston area, the drum corps and bands often appeared in the same shows, had the same judges, and were judged using the same criteria, though the "tic sheet" for music execution may have been different for bands and drum corps due to woodwinds. I do recall that on the tabulations sheets, the GE category for music was "brass." The bands and drum corps also had many of the same drill instructors, color guard instructors, and percussion instructors, and at times music directors. Some of the bands performed pieces that drum corps performed the following year, and some bands used drum corps arrangements from a previous year. There were usually three levels and the bands and drum corps were probably comparable, however, the best bands were not as good as the elite drum corps in the Boston area. There was never a band that was better than 27th Lancers, North Star, Boston Crusaders, or the prior generation of BAC, St. Kevin's or St. Mary's Cardinals. Now speaking as someone who was in a competitive band, and someone who did want to make the switch to a drum corps and would have if transportation had not been an issue, a band has the potential to be as good as a drum corps as far as difficulty of music is concerned, band members could learn as difficult a drill, excellence could be achieved in a similar way, at least as far as potential is concerned. I would wonder, however, if a band could recreate the intangibles that drum corps offer. For me, there is something about the all brass sound, the symmetry of all silver brass instruments, and the feel of an ensemble that is like no other that a band cannot recreate. Also, the experience of touring has an impact. As I mentioned, the bands and drum corps in the Boston area circuits were about equal in ability. They practiced for similar amounts of time. The bands and drum corps were about the same size and rarely traveled outside of Massachusetts and even more rarely traveled outside of New England. Touring makes a huge difference. Whenever the debate arises, it seems as if Broken Arrow is used as the example of a band that is better than a drum corps, and once the question was where they would place in the Top 12. After watching the clip provided, I ventured to say that Broken Arrow might be as good as Spartans or 7th Regiment and it was taken as an insult. I like both organizations and meant it as a compliment. My guess is it was viewed as drum corps fan snobbery. This is not new either. Again, going back to my era with bands and drum corps in the same circuit. The drum corps looked down on the bands because they were "bands" but the bands thought they were superior to drum corps because the kids in the bands could read music (not always the case with drum corps back in the day) and part of the reason why some of the elite corps' instructors moonlighted as instructors for the bands was to recruit talent, which they claimed was better than the drum corps. So, if the debate wasn't settled when bands and drum corps competed side by side, do we really think it will be settled by comparing Youtube clips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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