ordsw24 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 And the cavaliers ARE in trouble. You'll see. What makes you say this? Reason(s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Cycle Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 lol, typical DCP apologists ... my OP was about THIS YEAR first and foremost. I was reacting to this awful show, and saying they were NOT the same corps they've been for the last 15 years. Sure enough, they had their worst finish in 19 years. Naturally, everyone comes out of the woodwork and says "YEAH BUT NEXT YEAR" The burden of proof is on you guys now. The Cavs lost key people and had a TERRIBLE (by their standards) finish. Why think it will be different next year? You can HOPE that it will (as I definitely do, since I love the Cavs), but I don't see how people can be that optimistic right now. The show clearly needs to change it's approach and identity since they aren't getting Fiedler or Gaines back. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 lol, typical DCP apologists ... my OP was about THIS YEAR first and foremost. I was reacting to this awful show, and saying they were NOT the same corps they've been for the last 15 years. Sure enough, they had their worst finish in 19 years. Naturally, everyone comes out of the woodwork and says "YEAH BUT NEXT YEAR" The burden of proof is on you guys now. The Cavs lost key people and had a TERRIBLE (by their standards) finish. Why think it will be different next year? You can HOPE that it will (as I definitely do, since I love the Cavs), but I don't see how people can be that optimistic right now. The show clearly needs to change it's approach and identity since they aren't getting Fiedler or Gaines back. Fiedler was the corps director, not the designer, so I don't really see your point there. The majority of the design team was returning. Gaines was the one designer that was not the same from the previous year, so again, its not like they lost their entire team. From time to time, a great design team is going to swing and miss. This was one of those times. I think a lot can be attributed to the drastic change in drill writing style. The way Gaines writes drill is very different from the way Hinshaw writes drill. With another year for the corps to adjust to that, they will be just fine. Nobody is being apologetic. They are simply pointing out the facts of the situation. The last time they had an unexpected fall out of the top 5, they placed 4th the very next year. Nobody can be sure where they will place next year, any more than we could be sure that they would place 8th at this time last year. Considering a large portion of the current design process sits in the hands of the design staff still at Cavaliers, and not in Fiedler's or Gaines' hands, no identity change is necessary. You just try again next year and hope it works out a little better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda1234 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 An organizations success or failures are directly related to its leadership. It's not the same corps it once was. It may not ever be the same again. Maybe it's another organizations turn. The Cavaliers have a lot to get better at before they can be competitive on the field. From rehearsal sites, to travel, to food, to recruiting, to schedules, to staff transportations to member accountability to rehearsal standards... It all adds up to what the fans see on the field. Let's hope the off season is productive for them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolutionokay Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 An organizations success or failures are directly related to its leadership. It's not the same corps it once was. It may not ever be the same again. Maybe it's another organizations turn. The Cavaliers have a lot to get better at before they can be competitive on the field. From rehearsal sites, to travel, to food, to recruiting, to schedules, to staff transportations to member accountability to rehearsal standards... It all adds up to what the fans see on the field. Let's hope the off season is productive for them. Oh god, please tell me they didn't stop doing the potato bar! As for leadership, I understand what you are saying- I don't know who this Adolph Degrawe is- but he's probably doesn't know *anything* about what made the Cavaliers great. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiBoyinLA Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 As for leadership, I understand what you are saying- I don't know who this Adolph Degrawe is- but he's probably doesn't know *anything* about what made the Cavaliers great. Yeah, Adolph has only been with the Cavaliers since 1955. And has served as corps director for 15 years over two eras (the first being 1979-1990). And was inducted into the DCI Hall of Fame in 2000. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbandguy Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 ...The Cavaliers have a lot to get better at before they can be competitive on the field. So in your opinion are we to assume the following corps are also NOT competitive on the field: 9 Madison Scouts 10 Blue Knights 11 Spirit of Atlanta 12 Crossmen 13 Blue Stars 14 Glassmen 15 The Academy 16 Pacific Crest 17 Colts 18 Troopers 19 Oregon Crusaders 20 Jersey Surf 21 Blue Devils B 22 Vanguard Cadets 23 Mandarins 24 Spartans 25 Cascades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) This was actually the point I was going for. I seriously doubt the Cavaliers are going to drop out of Finals next year. I also seriously doubt they'll rebound like 2012 never happened and be in the Top 3. In MODERN DCI, it takes years to rebound from sudden huge drops like this... Blue Knights 2000 - 6th (92.00) Blue Knights 2001 - 14th (83.90) Blue Knights 2002 - 13th Blue Knights 2003 - 13th Blue Knights 2004 - 10th Blue Knights 2005 - 10th Blue Knights 2006 - 7th (90.125) SCV 2004 - 3rd (96.825) SCV 2005 - 8th (88.650) SCV 2006 - 6th (92.350) SCV 2007 - 5th (94.175) Phantom 2008 - 1st (98.125) Phantom 2009 - 9th (89.900) Phantom 2010 - 6th (93.150) Phantom 2011 - 5th (95.050) Phantom 2012 - 3rd (96.550) The Cavaliers will more than likely be 5th-7th place next season, and maybe 3rd or 4th in 2014. But I would be stunned if they became an "instant contender" just one year where so much "went wrong" (not just visual design and execution; let's not forget they were 8th in Brass and Music Analysis, too). What would stop them (other than cherry picked statistics from "history" ... except history that you find inapplicable)? What do you think explains these statistics? What would hold them back from competing for a title next year? Edited August 18, 2012 by jasgre2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) lol, typical DCP apologists ... my OP was about THIS YEAR first and foremost. I was reacting to this awful show, and saying they were NOT the same corps they've been for the last 15 years. Sure enough, they had their worst finish in 19 years. Naturally, everyone comes out of the woodwork and says "YEAH BUT NEXT YEAR" The burden of proof is on you guys now. The Cavs lost key people and had a TERRIBLE (by their standards) finish. Why think it will be different next year? You can HOPE that it will (as I definitely do, since I love the Cavs), but I don't see how people can be that optimistic right now. The show clearly needs to change it's approach and identity since they aren't getting Fiedler or Gaines back. Why should anyone have to prove anything? Can't we just hope for the best? What is wrong with optimism? Edited August 18, 2012 by jasgre2000 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda1234 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 1345264065[/url]' post='3207947']So in your opinion are we to assume the following corps are also NOT competitive on the field: 9 Madison Scouts 10 Blue Knights 11 Spirit of Atlanta 12 Crossmen 13 Blue Stars 14 Glassmen 15 The Academy 16 Pacific Crest 17 Colts 18 Troopers 19 Oregon Crusaders 20 Jersey Surf 21 Blue Devils B 22 Vanguard Cadets 23 Mandarins 24 Spartans 25 Cascades competitive for a championship... Not competitive for who is "less bad". Competitive for a title. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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