George Hopkins

[Jeff Ream]

The Band division of DCI probably failed because brass version was still around. Like I said, I prefer drum corps the way it is now(no woodwinds).

Also, times are different now, maybe now a DCI style band circuit might be successful since BOA has become big.

But I wouldn't start a different circuit now, having it compete against DCI would not be helpful to both sides. Kinda like when IndyCar spilt in two. With fans divided, the popularity faltered.

I don't know the right answer, but I'm sure the people in charge have a better understanding of the sitiuation than those of us sitting behind a computer on these forums.

BOA has been big. In it's area, TOB is big, and in fact competes with USBands ( almosttyped the old name LOL), Cavalcade of Bands, LMBA and PIMBA, plus many shows that are not even tied to a local circuit, just run by bands for bands to perform.

And, let's think about perception for a second. brass and percussion is perceived to be cool. Woodwinds aren't. ( just stating what I see and hear, even from woodwind players). The cool/wow/loud factor has been cited by many woodwind players on why they decided to learn how to play brass or percussion instruments and join a corps.

because sadly, to many people, playing a flute is equated with "and one day, at band camp, I.....( you know the line)

[funkjazzaxe]

Exactly- as a sax player turned low brass player specifically to play in drum corps, I would have not been interested in the least if there were woodwinds. It was the exotic appeal of the unique instrumentation that made it so cool to me. It was NOT marching band. Soprano/Conta just sounds so much cooler than "trumpet/tuba"... literally and figuratively haha. Throw in saxophones and clarinets and stuff and then it looses all its coolness. And this is coming from a woodwind player.

[camel lips]

Heres the thing.

There are people that have boycotted and moved on from drum corps because of Multi Key.

Weve lots fans due to electronics,narration and singing. (Thank God Singing is gone or not thrown in our face like it was)

But

We are going to lose a huge amount of fans if we make the move to woodwinds. DCI will NEVER be the same after that?

The big question is will it survive and grow after woodwinds?

Thats the $1000 dollar question.

Too big of a gamble if you ask me.

Edited June 28, 2012 by camel lips

[garfield]

Heres the thing.

There are people that have boycotted and moved on from drum corps because of Multi Key.

Weve lots fans due to electronics,narration and singing. (Thank God Singing is gone or not thrown in our face like it was)

But

We are going to lose a huge amount of fans if we make the move to woodwinds. DCI will NEVER be the same after that?

The big question is will it survive and grow after woodwinds?

Thats the $1000 dollar question.

Too big of a gamble if you ask me.

It's worse than that. These things were, each and every one, going to stop the bleeding and reverse the attendance declines.

Adding WW is Hop's Holy Grail. It's the summation of the plan he put into place in the late '90's.

Edited June 28, 2012 by garfield

[atlvalet]

Something got lost here... the problem isn't getting more members to sign (we've been repeatedly told that "hundreds" are turned away each year), the problem is getting the audience to stay put (y'know, the people paying to see the performance).

While adding woodwinds might attract some new members into the drum corps scene, you would most definitely lose more audience than you'd gain. For those that want a fully-instrumented marching band experience, there are tons of alternatives available (as has also been pointed out repeatedly). The only reason I can see anyone deliberately wanting to change the only unique aspect left to drum corps would be because they are already heavily vested (or invested) in the BOA arena.

It is precisely the difference that makes (made?) drum corps appealing. It was the pulse-pounding percussion, the face-melting brass, the POWER exhibited that originally attracted people to the shows. Not woodwinds, not electronics, not amps. It was loud, rowdy arrangements full of sizzling riffs and runs.

For every one that says there "is no difference" between drum corps and marching bands (HS or collegiate), there are two that says "yes, there is a difference". Have your best college band play a set, then have a corps play the same set... and even your Average Joe would immediately know and feel the difference.

I have stated before that DCI has a demand problem (the audience) and not a supply problem (the performers, or as some people refer to them, "the children").

Opening up DCI to more people is not going to solve the problem of some corps choosing to perform garbage, non-engaging shows.

Here's a nice little formula for DCI: Face-bleeding brass + ridiculous percussion + cool guard moves + crazy drill + good show design = butts in seats

Notice that formula does not include George Hopkins brilliantly written narration, a boy named Jeffery, synths, or any of the other crappy things that have been added in the past 10 years.

Edited June 29, 2012 by atlvalet

[GUARDLING]

I have stated before that DCI has a demand problem (the audience) and not a supply problem (the performers, or as some people refer to them, "the children").

Opening up DCI to more people is not going to solve the problem of some corps choosing to perform garbage, non-engaging shows.

Here's a nice little formula for DCI: Face-bleeding brass + ridiculous percussion + cool guard moves + crazy drill + good show design = butts in seats

Notice that formula does not include George Hopkins brilliantly written narration, a boy named Jeffery, synths, or any of the other crappy things that have been added in the past 10 years.

its got all that............thoe other stuff is all subjective and an opinion ( which you are entitled to )

[JonW]

I don't think that the most ardent WW supporter (hmmm....that might be me, come to think of it! ) would say that WW would be just as loud as brass. That is not the point. In creating charts the arranger uses the voices most appropriate for the musical phrase. In some areas the WW choir can be predominant, and in others it is the brass. Just listen to a Mahler Symphony for examples, among many choices. You aren't hearing a lot of WW in the big brassy moments, but you can at other times.

WW can be very effective on the field, IMO, if the arrangement is set up to utilize each voice in the most appropriate manner.

There are already plenty of ponds and streams for them to play in - bringing them to drum corps is just like introducing an invasive species to new waters. Not a good thing at all.

[MikeD]

There are already plenty of ponds and streams for them to play in - bringing them to drum corps is just like introducing an invasive species to new waters. Not a good thing at all.

How can adding WW to a marching band be introducing something "invasive"?

[JonW]

How can adding WW to a marching band be introducing something "invasive"?

You've made it quite evident that you believe there to be no difference between the two (dc is mb), where I thought I had made it equally clear that I find distinct differences (dc and mb are not the same). Same coin, two vastly different sides.

So, yes, to me woodwinds would be an invasive species.

[Jeff Ream]

It's worse than that. These things were, each and every one, going to stop the bleeding and reverse the attendance declines.

Adding WW is Hop's Holy Grail. It's the summation of the plan he put into place in the late '90's.

and yet his gran plan hasn't really grown the business.

Amazing how's that's worked. Whats sad is other fell for it.

he wants to be the one stop shop...drum corps, band circuit, you name it.