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George Hopkins


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page 60 and still no real evidence on one of the cornerstones of the "drum corps is declining" argument...

Change your settings to 40 posts per page and you'll only have to deal with 16 pages thus far.

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its got all that............thoe other stuff is all subjective and an opinion ( which you are entitled to )

Well, you know, the lack of DCI attendance might indicate others feel similarly too ;) (Among other issues).

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Drum corps was due to decline in the 70s and 80s. The model for funding, the need for insurance, the cost of food and gas, busing, and the cost of stadium rentals and other anciliary costs were changing at a drastic pace. Better instructors meant higher wages, more dedicated managements teams that helped to raise the funds year-round meant higher wages. It can't be all volunteer or it will not survive.

So the cost of running a drum corps was no longer possible using the grass-roots model often employed by corps from the 50s and 60s, even well into the 70s.

I say this because this perceived notion that we can do "something" to increase the number of corps and fans is not a good place to start. I believe that if you clear the deck and start fresh, or at least start with the year 2000, you will realize that drum corps isn't doing all that bad. Yes, I think we can attract new fans. We can always do that. Yes, we can bring some new life to the activity. And yes, we can find better models for funding the activity.

What we CAN'T DO is change WHAT the activity is! Now, to some degree we can all argue that this has already happened. We no longer have real bugles, we have added electronics, amplification, etc. But at its central core, drum corps is brass and percussion with drill and choreography. Adding woodwinds would be a HUGE paradigm change. To me, adding electronics was merely expanding the pit, and adding amplification was changing the balances (sometimes ok and other time sh_tty).

When Starbucks grew as a company and really flourished, they didn't change coffee. They roasted and brewed it differently to appeal to your taste buds! The experience was better. The store itself is an experience, the environment makes you want to drink a coffee, latte, espresso, etc., and you feel alive and ready to begin your day (or perhaps end your day). But at the core of that company is a simple task: make great coffee.

DCI and its member corps do not need to change the contents of drum corps by adding woodwinds, real string instruments, choirs, and what not. They simply need to do drum corps better. It's the unique blend of brass and percussion, and the unique precision of marching and other visual elements that give this activity its charm, pomp and circumstance, and exciting "charge." We have already seen the additions of narration and electronics fall flat in many shows. Kind of like adding too much cream to your coffee, too much sugar, and too much carmel to your latte.

Woodwinds were built for indoor use, and I am reminded of that every fall when I work with my marching band.

Only one thing wrong with this post:

Starbucks make AWFUL coffee!

tongue.gif

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I'll put it like this:

DCI puts out numbers when they look good.

when they don't, you see nothing.

Last year, all we saw was finals week numbers

I wouldn't quibble with this.

Yet, most (at least on this thread) accept the premise that drum corps is in decline, that attendance is down - based on absolutely no evidence. To my suggestion that there are now many more venues through which people access drum corps folks responded with the tried and true - finals attendance is down. :rolleyes:

If the premise isn't true, then Hop's argument for woodwinds has no legs to stand on. That just leaves Mike D who wants WW for asthetic reasons. :tongue:

Edited by ecamburn
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Well, you know, the lack of DCI attendance might indicate others feel similarly too ;) (Among other issues).

I hear that alot yet on tour Ive seen quite a few people,..the same as bitd , of course not, but why would it be....its not the same and never will be again Most things from 40 years ago dont have the support any more..old argument

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If woodwinds happened,for a couple of years things would be good, but after time, interest would wane. Eventually, becausw they were so simelar the next move would be to merge BOA/DCI. For a couple of years things would be good, then interest would wane. Stadiums would still become empty, then what do you do?

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I wouldn't quibble with this.

Yet, most (at least on this thread) accept the premise that drum corps is in decline, that attendance is down - based on absolutely no evidence. To my suggestion that there are now many more venues through which people access drum corps folks responded with the tried and true - finals attendance is down. :rolleyes:

If the premise isn't true, then Hop's argument for woodwinds has no legs to stand on. That just leaves Mike D who wants WW for asthetic reasons. :tongue:

there are ways to get the numbers. I refuse to put people in a spot that will get them in trouble unless it's really huge like I did with the G7...and that came to me unsolicited

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I hear that alot yet on tour Ive seen quite a few people,..the same as bitd , of course not, but why would it be....its not the same and never will be again Most things from 40 years ago dont have the support any more..old argument

Hell, I'm not talking 40 years ago. I'm talking 20 years ago. How old do you think I am? :)

If woodwinds happened,for a couple of years things would be good, but after time, interest would wane. Eventually, becausw they were so simelar the next move would be to merge BOA/DCI. For a couple of years things would be good, then interest would wane. Stadiums would still become empty, then what do you do?

What makes you assume that things would be good at any point after adding woodwinds? Is there some hidden, pent up demand for woodwinds? Is there a large block of woodwind players who have been craving to march DCI, if alas, they only had woodwinds? I'm guessing no...

Edited by atlvalet
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there are ways to get the numbers. I refuse to put people in a spot that will get them in trouble unless it's really huge like I did with the G7...and that came to me unsolicited

IMO getting a read on whether drum corps is thriving or "viable" (to use Hop's word) would go well beyond getting attendance numbers from DCI. It's a new era. How many HS band kids do you think watched the Muncie show on Fan Network tonight? How many HS band kids watch parking lot videos on youtube? Those avenues didn't exist 15 years ago.

Not picking a fight, just trying to nudge the conversation away from an exclusive focus on show attendance.

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IMO getting a read on whether drum corps is thriving or "viable" (to use Hop's word) would go well beyond getting attendance numbers from DCI. It's a new era. How many HS band kids do you think watched the Muncie show on Fan Network tonight? How many HS band kids watch parking lot videos on youtube? Those avenues didn't exist 15 years ago.

Not picking a fight, just trying to nudge the conversation away from an exclusive focus on show attendance.

few. I doubt most talked their parents into shelling out the cash. and the way corps protect what goes on youtube, you see less now than you did 5 years ago.

and let's be honest...##### in the seats put money into DCi's coffers. youtube videos don't

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