MikeD Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 What DCI can and if it's not already doing so should do, is provide corps with good fiscal models of how a drum corps should be financed, tips and help with short term fund raising and long term development (endowments, cash reserves, etc.), and guidance in selecting and growing a board of directors that not only advises a corps but helps a corps become what it wants to be. Perhaps this already happens. If it's not, it should happen soon. I have been told that DCI has some sort of information available along the lines of what you note above. Not sure the details, and also not sure how recent, but I was told that...a few years back by a DCI board member (not Hoppy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 You have some excellent points. DCI could require corps to be audited and DCI need not pick up the expense. In proportion to an annual budget, it's not that costly. I am the pastor of a Catholic church. The budget of the parish which includes the church and activities, school, and early childhood center is about $2.5 million, the cost of the audit is $5K. Very often non-profits: churches, schools, and social service agencies have to have an audit by an approved auditor determined by the supervisory or parent organization. For example a church could require that all parishes in the area have an audit, Company X ore Y must do the audit, and report back to the supervisory body. The organization itself picks up the expense. I know it is an extra burden on corps that are barely getting by, but in this day and age where fiscal transparency is so important, it gives the organization credibility with both parents and corporate donors. What DCI can and if it's not already doing so should do, is provide corps with good fiscal models of how a drum corps should be financed, tips and help with short term fund raising and long term development (endowments, cash reserves, etc.), and guidance in selecting and growing a board of directors that not only advises a corps but helps a corps become what it wants to be. Perhaps this already happens. If it's not, it should happen soon. all 501's have audits done every year,..........they already incur this expense,......more often than not, shell games hide problems like this,.............. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) Nothing is for certain? What about Insurance or backup $$?? If you listen to Dave Ramsey , he talks about emergency fund, couldn't it apply here. Agree they are good ideas but don't know anything about the emergency fund. My response is more for people who think everything can be planned for. Should have also posted about "FOR CERTAIN that they will complete the Tour safely" as there have been plenty of instances of members being hurt during the season. Sounds like no one should go on tour to make sure they are safe. Edited July 11, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Agree they are good ideas but don't know anything about the emergency fund. My response is more for people who think everything can be planned for. Should have also posted about "FOR CERTAIN that they will complete the Tour safely" as there have been plenty of instances of members being hurt during the season. Sounds like no one should go on tour to make sure they are safe. unfortunately this is something that didn't just happen , although present admin. should have maybe put ego aside and realise the potential diaster. If you look several postings back it comes from someone who I believe was either on staff or the board last year and far warned the DCI office and Dan and according to them , it fell on deaf ears. I do know there were staff and payment issues last year amoung some other things and in fairness to the current staff it is very hard to clean up others mess or a mess that was started before them BUT then it needs to be looked at realistically. Although money is different would an open class tour avoided this..maybe , maybe not. Many people defend those who chose to be in WC for whatever reasons BUT do good finances make a WC corps NO!! managing those resources and being able to correctly manage that corp or business is yet another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSharpie91 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well they did pick up some kids from the airport, but I'm currently in the car with the 2 guard age outs headed to Davenport:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) unfortunately this is something that didn't just happen , although present admin. should have maybe put ego aside and realise the potential diaster. If you look several postings back it comes from someone who I believe was either on staff or the board last year and far warned the DCI office and Dan and according to them , it fell on deaf ears. I do know there were staff and payment issues last year amoung some other things and in fairness to the current staff it is very hard to clean up others mess or a mess that was started before them BUT then it needs to be looked at realistically. Although money is different would an open class tour avoided this..maybe , maybe not. Many people defend those who chose to be in WC for whatever reasons BUT do good finances make a WC corps NO!! managing those resources and being able to correctly manage that corp or business is yet another story. The post I responded to (see below) was making a general statement and not talking about the TS situation. At least that's the way I read it and so I made a general response. If NYCfan had directed this statement towards TS I would not have posted as I don't know the situation. IMO, running a corps or any other high cost group is a crap shoot anymore and the odds for the player/manager are getting worse. Belong to another non-musical group and seems like chances of a "Oh ####" that could kill the group are getting better and better. "ANY corps that takes off on their first trip, without knowing FOR CERTAIN that they will complete the Tour safely and within budget, is simply mismanaged. And this kind of thing reflects poorly on the entire activity." Edited July 11, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Lots of folks have suggested DCI should be auditing books etc. Even if the member corps were willing, that's a lot of work and a lot of expense on DCI's part. Hiring accountants to give the books a serious once-over for more than a trivial number of corps would be incredibly expensive. And imposing a rule on the corps that they must pay for their own audits by external groups would also surely be too costly to consider. Every corps' BOD should be paying for and reviewing an annual audit of their books-it's the only way to verify that everything is being handled professionally and above board. An audit, however, does NOT determine whether there will be enough funds to see a tour through to completion, or reveal bad financial decisions by corps admin. An audit determines whether the organization is adhering to generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP) in recording and reporting their finances. If the corps is operating within GAAP, it should not be difficult for a BOD (assuming that they are reviewing the financial statements AND have some business background) to see that the corps admin.-or even the BOD itself-is making bad decisions regarding its funds, or that there might be cash flow issues or other issues that might cause the corps to not be able to complete tour. A better option might be that DCI establish a financial benchmark-just as a for instance, let's say $400,000-plus X dollars per member-and that corps are required to provide documentation to DCI that on June 1, they have that amount either in the bank, or as GUARANTEED income (NOT accounts receivable, but things like commitments from sponsors, income from things like CD's or endowments, etc.), or available from a line of credit. If the corps can't meet the financial benchmark, they are not allowed to tour but can still perform at shows within a certain radius-or allow them a shortened tour, kind of like OC. I am glad to see that at least some of the kids are finding spots in other corps, and look forward to hearing more "success stories" like that. It is sad that it sounds like FB has become a total train wreck. I do agree with the mindset that trying to get (at any and all costs) a refund from an organization that is in financial straits is either beating a dead horse, or will ensure that the organization will have a more difficult time trying to recover. If this whole thing is a direct result of the bus debacle, and Teal is due $ from them, I am confident that once this thing plays out legally if Teal gets reimbursed, then they will offer to reimburse those that paid for a full tour but didn't receive it. If not, take the tour fee and write off a pro rated portion as a charitable donation on your tax return. If you give money to a legal non profit, you have to subtract any benefit you receive in exchange for your donation (in this case, move ins and the first part of tour expenses) and deduct the rest. You need a receipt from the organization, but if they won't or can't refund your money, it seems it's the least they could do. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 The post I responded to (see below) was making a general statement and not talking about the TS situation. At least that's the way I read it and so I made a general response. If NYCfan had directed this statement towards TS I would not have posted as I don't know the situation. IMO, running a corps or any other high cost group is a crap shoot anymore and the odds for the player/manager are getting worse. Belong to another non-musical group and seems like chances of a "Oh ####" that could kill the group are getting better and better. "ANY corps that takes off on their first trip, without knowing FOR CERTAIN that they will complete the Tour safely and within budget, is simply mismanaged. And this kind of thing reflects poorly on the entire activity." totally agree..i meant to hit a general response..sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) all 501's have audits done every year,..........they already incur this expense,......more often than not, shell games hide problems like this,.............. It's definitely possible to fool external auditors, especially when the organization being audited is paying for the audit. And for what it's worth $5000 would barely get 40 hours of time (and you've likely got at least two CPAs out even for the smallest audits, plus the partner's time to review things, and with expenses $5k will get two days of review by two people. That's a good check to have in place, but these types of audits are more about, have they filing their 990s, W-2s, and 1099s correctly, etc, and they aren't focused on "does this organization have the cash flow required to deal with a future tour?" type questions, which is the additional audit question that might avoid this kind of debacle. EDIT: I see my points were made better by Grumpy above. Edited July 11, 2012 by skywhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) I have to wonder as much as we do blame ( righfully so ) admin. How much was also due to kids NOT PAYING, which is also admin. issue if they let them get away with it.Member dues usually dont even come close to what actual costs are but sure does have to be counted on. I have seen many programs summer as well as winter go under for this reason , empty promises, sense of entitlement, etc etc. From what I understand many Fl. programs have fallen prey to this summer and winter. I do hope all the kids who PAID get spots 1st in other corps and those who didnt..Oh well either way though , kids do not deserve to be yaked off tour or not get what they paid for and again this does become admins issue....sad all the way around......still comes down to poor management....Im sure there wasnt just 1 thing that caused this.This is just 1 of many that could have contributed Edited July 11, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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