Schnitzel Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Since the moderators is their infinite wisdom somehow decided that this was to be placed in teal sound thread when clearly they (TS) were only used as an example, i have pasted my thought/question below I am sure this has been talked about before, so bear with me. After hearing of yet another corps folding today, I looked at Teal Sounds web site under the heading of instructors. Including administration, there are 40 people under this caption. My question... who on this list is paid? All 40 of them? 1/2? none. If they are all paid, is it necessary to have 10 instructors for brass? Yes, I can be considered a dinosaur, but seriously? I remember when there were 2-3 per section. All volunteers. Add in costs of synths, amps, extra trucks to haul...so much.. Have we really lost our selves and as drum corps? thhis is all getting out of hand. I forsee one day in the not too distant future that there will be 12 corps left and finals will be top 5 IMHO, you've hit upon an important consideration. I've been to contests where there seemed to be as many staffers as performers. Maybe they are some/most/all volunteers (which I think is great!), but it begs the question, nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Is DCI to blame? No (as others have said). To start with, each corps, which operates as a non-profit organization, is responsible for their own success or failure (on and off the field). It's all starts with local management, staff, volunteers, and friends and alumni of the corps. Nobody knows better the finances for each corps than the director, management staff, and board of directors. The process starts there, and the most important checks must be done locally. I wasn't aware that DCI was doing some financial checks (if they are), but a lot can go wrong there. It depends on what information the corps gives DCI, and often times a corps might give them a projection (based on membership, incoming revenue (from bingo, fundraisers, etc.), sponsorship, and the projected costs. If this so-called "check" was completed in the spring, then a lot can happen in a month or two before tour begins. You can lose a sponsor or two, your fundraisers may not produce what you thought they were going to, some of your members may not have the money to march, busing costs can end up being more than you thought, housing sites can be lost and the new sites you find end up costing more. Food budgets can run amuck on tour. I've long said that DCI can't solve these problems. They are simply the parent organization representing an ASSOCIATION of drum and bugle corps. That association is not a 100% revenue-sharing operation. It is the job of each corps to raise their cash locally, regionally, and through whatever fundraisers they can. DCI can provide services for media, allowing us to view the corps online, and also allowing us to download audio and video with the proceeds going out to the corps. The same of course happens with show revenue. Short of that it is the job of each corps to raise their money. I am not in favor of DCI doing any more revenue sharing than what I listed above. It's not fair for the Blue Devils to lose some of their revenue so another corps that doesn't make enough can field a show. That's nothing more than "Peter robbing Paul" to pay the bills. The funny thing about spending someone else's money is that you eventually run out of money and that "Someone Else" becomes impatient. Running a drum and bugle corps is expensive and requires a lot of people who understand business and marketing and who have the time to do it right. It requires a community that wants a drum and bugle corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina09Spirit Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I can guarantee you that corps are not "wasting" money on staff. With the exception of the top one or two staff members for each caption, salaries are not extravagant. Considering that many tech staff members are often only on tour for part of the season, yes, there are plenty of reasons why a corps might need 4 front ensemble techs (for example). Consistent instruction is the key to a successful product on the field, especially in the case of a group like Teal where a significantly larger percentage of its membership are drum corps rookies as compared to some of the top tier corps. Its not always a case of having at least one person in front of the section at a given time. Tech staffs who are working with the same section need time to teach together so that they are on the same page in terms of the direction and information being given out. That way, regardless of who is in front of the group, the philosophy and technique information is the same. All of that being said, the tech staff salaries are a drop in the bucket in terms of the overall budget for the summer. As one poster already pointed out, most corps will spend over 1000$ a day on fuel just to get the corps from one place to another. Over a 6 week tour, you're talking about at least 35,000$ just for fuel (assuming there are days with no travel involved, thus no fuel costs). That doesn't even include payment for the busses, trucks, equipment, housing, etc. Point being, having 2 front techs instead of 4 would not have made even a remote difference in the ability of the corps to stay on the road. Oh I'm well aware of that, and never once considered the thought. I'm just point out in general, aside from the TS situation, my thoughts on that # of people on staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina09Spirit Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I just saw a post on another thread that read something like: "Maybe corps should stick to regional tours..." That wasn't the entire quote, but it's enough for me to say my 2 cents. Before I even say this, I fully understand that I'm in no shoes to say what if, or what they "should have done." I'm just making a valid point that would only improve everyone's well-being in this activity. Here is a list of Teal Sound's first few shows/sites that I'm going to relate to later. June 28th: Richmond, VA June 29th: Queensbury, NY June 30th: Lynn, MA July 2nd: Middletow, RI July 3rd: Bristol, RI July 7th: Jackson, NJ July 8th: Chambersburg, PA July 9th: Centerville, OH Keep in mind, I'm not a tour director, nor do I want to be one...but think about this. Teal Sound is based out of FLORIDA. Over a span of more than a week, they traveled through at least seven states. None of which were even close to their home state. Sure, there weren't five shows in their home state, but they sure as heck didn't have to go to Rhode Island and elsewhere in the NORTHEAST to kick off their season. Over the first two weeks, there were shows in Alabama, Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee and South Carolina. Yeah, that might be just as far of a travel cost as the Northeast, but at least on paper it looks better. And for whoever said DCI in Florida is dwindling...well, your home state corps can be part of the blame, sadly enough. If you want Drum Corps to grow in the state of Florida and increase the alumni base, then the only World Class corps in the state needs to be in their own neck of the woods appearing more often. That may come across as very sarcastic and I'm sorry. But it's the honest truth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallace Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 It's disheartening that such a promising organization has been dealt such a blow. However, we've all said at one time or another that the DCI model for success is very difficult to sustain even for the G7. The cost of the activity is out of control, and this economy is not getting better. Some of this is the "anything you can spend I can can spend greater" mentality folks think is necessary to stay competitive. Corps directors and their staffs are coming to the point where they will need to decide if a more modest model can bring the same experience to members. There needs to be a return to regional contests and championships with an eye to more intimate performances. I enjoy a standstill performance just as much as a full blown production. Why can't there be a division for that? If the rules can be changed for amps, voice, multi-key, sampling, and possibly woodwinds (I think I just threw up a little) then why can't a set of rules be passed for a division that doesn't need 10 sets of silks or 4 sets of tympani or amps in order to bring an evocative experience to the listener? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I just saw a post on another thread that read something like: "Maybe corps should stick to regional tours..." That wasn't the entire quote, but it's enough for me to say my 2 cents. Before I even say this, I fully understand that I'm in no shoes to say what if, or what they "should have done." I'm just making a valid point that would only improve everyone's well-being in this activity. Here is a list of Teal Sound's first few shows/sites that I'm going to relate to later. June 28th: Richmond, VA June 29th: Queensbury, NY June 30th: Lynn, MA July 2nd: Middletow, RI July 3rd: Bristol, RI July 7th: Jackson, NJ July 8th: Chambersburg, PA July 9th: Centerville, OH Keep in mind, I'm not a tour director, nor do I want to be one...but think about this. Teal Sound is based out of FLORIDA. Over a span of more than a week, they traveled through at least seven states. None of which were even close to their home state. Sure, there weren't five shows in their home state, but they sure as heck didn't have to go to Rhode Island and elsewhere in the NORTHEAST to kick off their season. Over the first two weeks, there were shows in Alabama, Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee and South Carolina. Yeah, that might be just as far of a travel cost as the Northeast, but at least on paper it looks better. And for whoever said DCI in Florida is dwindling...well, your home state corps can be part of the blame, sadly enough. If you want Drum Corps to grow in the state of Florida and increase the alumni base, then the only World Class corps in the state needs to be in their own neck of the woods appearing more often. That may come across as very sarcastic and I'm sorry. But it's the honest truth. Just a note here....besides the initial travel to the the NE, the travel that Teal had was a smaller distance than traveling the 5 states in the south you mentioned. The NE is much more compact than the south Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcifanforlife Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 It's disheartening that such a promising organization has been dealt such a blow. However, we've all said at one time or another that the DCI model for success is very difficult to sustain even for the G7. The cost of the activity is out of control, and this economy is not getting better. Some of this is the "anything you can spend I can can spend greater" mentality folks think is necessary to stay competitive. Corps directors and their staffs are coming to the point where they will need to decide if a more modest model can bring the same experience to members. There needs to be a return to regional contests and championships with an eye to more intimate performances. I enjoy a standstill performance just as much as a full blown production. Why can't there be a division for that? If the rules can be changed for amps, voice, multi-key, sampling, and possibly woodwinds (I think I just threw up a little) then why can't a set of rules be passed for a division that doesn't need 10 sets of silks or 4 sets of tympani or amps in order to bring an evocative experience to the listener? Everyone talks about a regional model. In 2012 three corps, Boston, Phantom Regiment and Spirit have raised their profiles because of the national touring model. End of topic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Everyone talks about a regional model. In 2012 three corps, Boston, Phantom Regiment and Spirit have raised their profiles because of the national touring model. End of topic. just wondering what you are basing this on? is what you are measuring quantifiable? their profiles before vs. after? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallace Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) Everyone talks about a regional model. In 2012 three corps, Boston, Phantom Regiment and Spirit have raised their profiles because of the national touring model. End of topic. All three of these corps' profiles were legendary and national far before 2012. Why does a corps have to embark on a national tour to be successful? Having regionals would allow corps to grow in steps from community based to state based to region based and hopefully nationally based. As it stands now, there is no real alternative to a national tour and little reward or competition if a corps wants to stay local. Regional associations can work. They did before. Edited July 11, 2012 by wallace 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 There's regional model already existing in DCI, in California with a good portion of open class corps opting to tour nationally or not. For example City Sound, Impulse will tour only in California performing in 7 shows. However VK and Gold will opt to compete at prelims. I think we should bring back DCI regions with existing and new corps competing in them. Once that is done, corps that can financially go on national tour or go to prelims can do so. Pacific Crest is a good example, since their inception in 1994, they toured in California only until 2000, when they started to tour till San Antonio. Then I believe in 2001 moved to Division I (World Class). Starting then they gradually did more shows over time. Here's a thought, DCI Pacific, DCI East, DCM, DCI South, etc. Corps in these regions compete from mid June to 1st week of July within their respective regions. Each region can have a corps from the other 3 regions to compete within the regional portion of the tour, like in 1994 when BD went back east or Phanton this year. At this point, the breakdown would be 8 corps in the West and MidWest, and 3 in the East and 4 in the South. My whole point is that it will create potentially more shows in a particular region, then smaller corps have more shows to compete in for 3 weeks, with bigger corps there. This is especially could be the case out West and the Mid-West. My thinking is that it may alleviate the pressure to tour nationally for those corps that may have some financial difficulty. And maybe more corps could spring up knowing, that a 3 week 9 show tour is worth fielding a corps I'm just blabbing now, just thoughts in reaction to Teal Sound's situation wait....you mean.....gasp....kinda like we used to have? But the Powers that be said this wouldn't work remember? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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