Martin I. Zing Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) ' <snip> When a tradition is so specific, it denies a corps expansion in to the greatest of the literature fitting in to that genre. Madison has done well because they've gone back to tradition, but what exactly is the title of that tradition? Old music that they used to play that they put a new spin on? That's a pretty wide tradition, in my opinion. Phantom can stay traditional, because their tradition is so expansive that there is a HUGE amount of material for them to choose from. Pioneer can only play the Holst Suites, and English Folk Song Suite so many times before it becomes stale and out of date.What I believe has happened is the Troopers HAVE tried to stay in their tradition in the last few years, but by doing it in a manner fresh and new - by using arguably the greatest American composer's lesser known works. If you approach it from this standpoint, the Troopers haven't swayed from tradition in the last two year, but they've embraced it. acolli17 I enjoyed your comments very much. I think you are on to something. But what Madison and only a few corps have discovered, is that every decision that they make with regards to the show, must be made with an eye towards "Will it result in something that is MORE ENTERTAINING to the WIDEST AUDIENCE possible?" Not to a handful of judges, alumni or even corps members themselves. There was a time when the Troopers operated this way. In fact it could be argued that Mr. Jones and the Troopers invented this method of --for lack of a better term-- GENERAL EFFECT ACCEPTANCE. You don't become America's Corps by doing things people don't ask to see again and again. That's why you have so many passionate people on this thread pulling for the Troop to refine their focus and get their act together. This sounds harsh but I don't mean it that way. And I'm confident they will bounce back and regain the love they deserve. Millions of us are waiting to come riding in, guns a blazin'. Things can turn around quickly. We all know that. Edited July 19, 2012 by Martin I. Zing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Smith Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 acolli17 I enjoyed your comments very much. I think you are on to something. But what Madison and only a few corps have discovered, is that every decision that they make with regards to the show, must be made with an eye towards "Will it result in something that is MORE ENTERTAINING to the WIDEST AUDIENCE possible?" Not to a handful of judges, alumni or even corps members themselves. There was a time when the Troopers operated this way. In fact it could be argued that Mr. Jones and the Troopers invented this method of --for lack of a better term-- GENERAL EFFECT ACCEPTANCE. You don't become America's Corps by doing things people don't ask to see again and again. That's why you have so many passionate people on this thread pulling for the Troop to refine their focus and get their act together. This sounds harsh but I don't mean it that way. And I'm confident they will bounce back and regain the love they deserve. Millions of us are waiting to come riding in, guns a blazin'. Things can turn around quickly. We all know that. That is a good summary and well thought out post. Thank you. I must admit that during shows there are certain corps I have always looked forward to because I knew they were going to touch my emotions and often raise the hair on the back of my neck. Whereas there are other corps that I looked forward to because it was a chance to go get a hot dog. The Troopers were always a corps that I knew would put ME first! I'm not so sure anymore. It seems like they are attempting to play to the judges the past few years. Now...that sounds a bit selfish...but I guess when I'm paying for the ticket I'm going because I want something. So, for example, when I heard Battle Hymn I would accidentally wet myself just a tiny-little-bit because it was so moving. I just have to admit to you all (and I know this will dash your impressions of me), but I'm really a simple lady who doesn't really find much satisfaction in "deep", nuanced, dissonant shows. I don't want a show that only ever resolves itself in the last ten seconds. I want a show that makes me cry, make me spontaneously stand up and shout, or makes me clap my hands. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearwy Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 That is a good summary and well thought out post. Thank you. I must admit that during shows there are certain corps I have always looked forward to because I knew they were going to touch my emotions and often raise the hair on the back of my neck. Whereas there are other corps that I looked forward to because it was a chance to go get a hot dog. The Troopers were always a corps that I knew would put ME first! I'm not so sure anymore. It seems like they are attempting to play to the judges the past few years. Now...that sounds a bit selfish...but I guess when I'm paying for the ticket I'm going because I want something. So, for example, when I heard Battle Hymn I would accidentally wet myself just a tiny-little-bit because it was so moving. I just have to admit to you all (and I know this will dash your impressions of me), but I'm really a simple lady who doesn't really find much satisfaction in "deep", nuanced, dissonant shows. I don't want a show that only ever resolves itself in the last ten seconds. I want a show that makes me cry, make me spontaneously stand up and shout, or makes me clap my hands. This! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) I have heard/seen this point made, several times, but I feel like one key thing is being completely overlooked....there are fans in the stands at every show that have no idea who the Troopers are. Why should this drum corps give in to this demanding (and shrinking) fan base? What good would it do? I'm sure these kids would much rather impress their friends from their high schools and colleges than impress the old school fan base that they have absolutely no connections with. And this is what Troop is doing. Let them be. Look, here's the deal. Right now The Trooper's are finishing 17 out of 18 Corps in some shows. They are not impressing the judges. From the reaction in the stands they are getting appreciative golf claps for their efforts more than for their entertainment value. The reviews of the show are not all that positive. If they are impressing their high school friends in the stands, ( as you said ) well thats frankly not enough. The Troopers need to change... or they will die. Even Piooner goes on a modified touring model. The Troopers can not change their cowboy inspired tradition based motif and still remain " America's Corps ". The Troopers are not the Glassmen. They are not Carolina Crown, nor are they the Cascades. The term " Troopers " refers to a different stylistic approach and ethos altogther. If the Troopers want to become these other Corps they should just fold and recreate a new " modern Corps " altogether from Caspar, Wyoming and start a new Corps,with a new modern name, fresh and with no historical roots, traditions , nor with ties to " America's Corps". But absent this, if the Troopers want to be truly different in this modern world of Drum Corps they do have this unique opportunity to do something different. Doing a show that revolves around " The Theatre " as this 2012 production is, just gives the performers no connection whatsoever to this Corps natural ethos, traditions, etc. The Troopers need to change the road they have taken since they last made Finals. Going " modern " ... for The Troopers at least ... has been an epic fail competitively for them. I don't think they're can be much disagreement on that at least. Edited July 19, 2012 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 going modern is NOT a bad thing.....how you do it is another story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) going modern is NOT a bad thing.....how you do it is another story The Troopers.... just one thought quickly off the top of my head... could do a retro show. A' retro " show by its very nature pays homage to the past by recreating some classics from the past, but done in a new and fresh manner. Good grief, Phantom did it with Spartacus.. and won a DCI Title with it... Cadets recreated West Side Story... Madison Scouts have utilized some retro...SCV brought back things in Retro...Phantom this year has brought back Nessun Dorma, others Corps as well. It shouldn't be all that hard for the Troopers, of all Corps, to consider doing a retro show. Then again, I suppose the Troopers could stay on the current path sylistically and continue to do " modern " shows like " The Theatre ". But when you're 17th out of 18 Corps in a regional, its time to go back to the drawing board on the styles, ethos, etc of the shows you are putting out on the field, as its just not the ethos, traditions, etc anymore of " America's Corps ", and these styles of shows are just not working anymore in conveying to the public that the Troopers are unique and different than the other " modern " Corps in DCI. Edited July 19, 2012 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 The Troopers.... just one thought quickly off the top of my head... could do a retro show. A' retro " show by its very nature pays homage to the past by recreating some classics from the past, but done in a new and fresh manner. Good grief, Phantom did it with Spartacus.. and won a DCI Title with it... Cadets recreated West Side Story... Madison Scouts have utilized some retro...SCV brought back things in Retro...Phantom this year has brought back Nessun Dorma, others Corps as well. It shouldn't be all that hard for the Troopers, of all Corps, to consider doing a retro show. Then again, I suppose the Troopers could stay on the current path sylistically and continue to do " modern " shows like " The Theatre ". But when you're 17th out of 18 Corps in a regional, its time to go back to the drawing board on the styles, ethos, etc of the shows you are putting out on the field, as its just not the ethos, traditions, etc anymore of " America's Corps ", and these styles of shows are just not working anymore in conveying to the public that the Troopers are unique and different than the other " modern " Corps in DCI. i think 17th or 18th has more to do with the how not the what.....they could certainly do a retro show if the want also...doesnt mean it wont be 17th or 18th either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troopers1 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 The Troopers need to change... or they will die. Let's not overstate the issue. The Troopers are performing with nearly a full corps, with talented members. Troopers are touring with good equipment. Everyone is being fed, taught and treated well. The Troopers have no debt. Yes, there are things to improve upon but this patient isn't even in the same suburb as the hospital. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) i think 17th or 18th has more to do with the how not the what.....they could certainly do a retro show if the want also...doesnt mean it wont be 17th or 18th either If they do a retro show... it certainly has the potential to be WAY more entrtaining than what they are doing now. With good entertainment, we should see an uptick in talent in future camps for them. That would be the hope anyway. Jeresy Surf could see an uptick in talent pool next year as this year's show, while not scoring all that well competitively, is a hit with most audiences. The kids in the Jersey Surf can feel good that the crowd is giving them a great hand. Thats a model worth emulating in my view, particularly when you are a Corps currently situated outside of the Top 12. Finishing out of the top 12 AND not having a fan friendly show is decidedly not a future productive formula for attracting better numbers and better quality talent to your camp the following year(s), imo. "If you build it ( an entertaining show ) they will come " Edited July 19, 2012 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 If they do a retro show... it certainly has the potential to be WAY more entrtaining than what they are doing now. With good entertainment, we should see an uptick in talent in future camps for them. That would be the hope anyway. Jeresy Surf could see an uptick in talent pool next year as this year's show, while not scoring all that well competitively, is a hit with most audiences. The kids in the Jersey Surf can feel good that the crowd is giving them a great hand. Thats a model worth emulating in my view, particularly when you are a Corps currently situated outside of the Top 12. well i see your point although not everyone feels the same about Surf and enter tainment is very subjective...yes they could feel good about what they are doing and thats cool but wonder now that these same kids got the bug of getting some attention will they go elsewhere for a faster trac....Yes I have heard that from a few of their members but hopefully as you said they could get more in. As for Troopers I still think its more of the how not the what.....or manybe its a combo of both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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