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KeithHall

Is There A Difference?

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A non=elitist with a name like Supersop? LOL

Hi Keith. You were a sop too :smile: I found the scores you were looking for. Please don't ask where I found them. I'm tired of typing so I cut/paste; sorry 'bout the font.

SUNDAY JULY 20, 1975

KITCHENER, ONTARIO

GOLDEN TRIANGLE CHAMPIONSHIPS

CENTENNIAL STADIUM

Ontario Drum Corps Association

Flying Dutchmens Show

SENECA PRINCEMEN 67.15

FLYING DUTCHMEN 57.70

CARDINALS OF PRECIOUS BLOOD 56.40

ST JOHN'S GIRLS 53.50

IMPERIAL REGIMENT, NY 50.00

VENTURES 48.45

ROYAL COACHMEN, NY 46.80

DUTCH BOY CADETS 44.85

OPTIMIST KNIGHTS 37.30

SUNDAY JULY 21, 1974

KITCHENER, ONTARIO

GOLDEN TRIANGLE CHAMPIONSHIPS

... CENTENNIAL STADIUM

Ontario Drum Corps Association

Flying Dutchmens Show

KINSMEN KRESCENDOS 64.75

FLYING DUTCHMEN 57.75

SAGINAIRES, MI 48.75

CLEVELAND CABALLEROS, OH 48.55

DUTCH BOY CADETS 46.65

OPTIMIST KNIGHTS 45.70

VENTURES 39.25

ROYAL COACHMEN, NY 36.20

FLINT GUARDSMEN, MI 36.05

We went to DCI finals 2010. We had a great time and looking forward to going again in 2013. The difference is I loved the past, look forward to the future and live in the present.

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Tnks Linda!!! I posted them on ourRoyal Cochmen alumi grop on FB. The gang wl lve remembering those.

Yes I was a sop, and a soloist too. Just doing my job like everyone else. I actually as pushed into it when several older guys left the corps to join a senior corps in our area. I just loved playing!

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Tnks Linda!!! I posted them on ourRoyal Cochmen alumi grop on FB. The gang wl lve remembering those.

You're welcome. My work here is now complete.

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The big difference that I see now is that the talent levels are superior to when we marched Keith. Thats not to say that our corps, didn't have talent, just that the kids today in todays corps, could easliy slide into any spot that we had back then IMO.

I recently found out that Fleetwood recording were putting out those old classic recordings that we all loved so much. I had lost all of the drum corp records that I had bought through-out my years with Drum Corps, so I decided to re-order one of my favorite Shows, 1969 World Open,, and while it brought beck some great memories, I was taken back by the lack of musicianship and quality, (Though, back then it was the finest in the land).

Better training in all phases, and not just with the corps member, but the staffs are more innovative and educated, not just a great gathering of well meaning volunteers and alumni.

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Part I of maybe a Part II or more in the days and weeks ahead

I've dealt with this subject very thoroughly in my previous articles about Saving Drum Corps and University Drum Corps International.

But, to summarize. Drum Corps today just doesn't serve a social service need. By about the early 1980's there were a half million or up to a million in the 1960's who marched in a drum corps. Those "mom and pop" corps sponsored by VFW, Churches, and other local groups took millions of young musicians and gave them a direction in life that most claimed no other type of activity so does. Most of them were like Jets and Sharks before Drum Corps. But drum corps became like an Officer Krumpke who took them away from rumble situations bound for a life in and out of prison or being carried off the lot dead with a lover behind. It's quite possible that those Bridgemen in 1981 who performed West Side Story were motivated by real life experiences. By 1987 and the Sky Riders, I doubt it.

My parents in I believe 1976 (maybe 1977) for an entire season, drove a gang of 20 inner city, ok African Americans, back to their horrible crime ridden areas after rehearsals. Most today are doctors, lawyers, CEO's, Social Workers etc. They all claim drum corps was the only reason they didn't just get killed like others they grew up with. One mentioned us on WEWS=TV about 5 years ago after winning some LISW award. So, I take this subject of Mom and Pop corps very seriously. And I get really offended by that term used in a negative tone.

Mom and Pop Drum Corps also served the community they served performing at dozens of parades and getting those Jets and Sharks (who's perhaps only interest other than fighting was music) from turning into James Holmes (or whatever the Aurora killer is) or Columbine, Virginia Tech, Fort Hood killers. You started off being a delinquent and a few weeks later only cared about "getting that part right."

Without Drum Corps and voter mentality like was in Rockford in the 1970's musicians only After School choices were go home to an empty house or hang out at the mall probably getting into trouble. I loved Phantom not just for their on field performance but the benefit they served to the Rockford Area.

There weren't just a few more corps. There were thousands of more corps. This year, DCI celebrates having 43 competitive drum corps. When my beloved 1979 Phantom tragically finished second, they were better than maybe up to 2,000 corps most of which never made it to Birmingham but competed in small shows not reported in Drum Corps News. NOTE THE PHRASE MAYBE UP TO 2000, and the word MAYBE. For their were so many corps and so many hundreds of thousands of delinquents turned productive citizens by the age of 21, that Drum Corps News, nor any person could determine a complete list due to the local circuits that weren't part of DCI. On the night of "Tears I" in Birmingham, there were guaranteed a thousand corps.

Today there are 43 competitive corps in the country. On the night of the IC Reveries Sit Down there were Metropolitan Areas that had 10 to 20 corps. We didn't take planes to camps. Most of us could just walk down a few streets, take bikes a few miles or public transportation. On any given summer day as recently as the late 1970's one could fill their car with a tank of gas and check out 7 to 14 local corps practicing. EVERY HIGH School and most every junior high school, most every side street had some number of people in a drum corps. My corps in 1977 had 12 members who went to Parma Senior High or Valley Forge High School.

Today, we have music majors who really don't need to be in a Drum Corps and should probably be spending their summers at jobs paying for their education. It's almost impossible to call Drum Corps a Non Profit Organization anymore. It's questionable that if members who read my posts about establishing University Drum Corps haven't contacted their music deans, to have Drum Corps replace some of their other less important courses, that the members question what they are doing has value. We went to our teachers, employers, family etc. and defended what we were going to do all summer.

If Drum Corps comprised almost entirely of music and performance art majors is so valuable then members should be able to state to deans why they are doing this and why others should do it. And by now, six months later my first crusade, I should be watching UDCI on ESPN.

Back in the Mom and Pop days that Keith Hall degraded, our value was praised in by virtually every mayor, governor,council member, definitely school board, PTA, police department, social worker, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Lyndon Baines Johnson, JFK, up to Ronald Reagan. And everyone else one can think of that endorses an activities social value. Drum Corps was the number one youth activity in terms of participation and overall benefit to society. Maybe more than just youth but all age. There wasn't a weekend long commercial free telethon for the Spirit of Atlanta in 1976-ish to play the best song of all time "Let It Be Me." It was broadcast, donating hours of broadcast time to help Atlanta's youth-not music majors. Jim Ott wasn't just a music instructor he was a father to hundreds.

Comparing on field performance of now versus then is debatably impossible. For now has no rules. Then had rules. If you took the all star members of say, 1978-ish and formed only 43 corps, stated ticks don't matter,provided a third valve,"allowed" asymetric drills, electronics fine and don't even worry about saying AMEN, for you can sing entire songs. It might or might not be better than now. As for taking the NOW members, make them play by our 1970's rules and could they do what we did. If someone ever invents time travel we can find out.

But, the mom and pop era wasn't just about on field performance. There are some really bad parts of some old DVD's. It was about off field benefit with millions of pre-George Hopkins Music major Era youths being alive and well with kids, grand kids, nephews, nieces, awards, resumes etc. Not criminal records and archived histories of Aurora style shootings.

That's all for now, for I have to throw in some Birmingham, Denver DCI DVD's to calm down. Before maybe a Part II. Similar to the fact that ticks don't count. For this posting proofreading I guess won't count.

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Part I of maybe a Part II or more in the days and weeks ahead

I've dealt with this subject very thoroughly in my previous articles about Saving Drum Corps and University Drum Corps International.

But, to summarize. Drum Corps today just doesn't serve a social service need. By about the early 1980's there were a half million or up to a million in the 1960's who marched in a drum corps. Those "mom and pop" corps sponsored by VFW, Churches, and other local groups took millions of young musicians and gave them a direction in life that most claimed no other type of activity so does. Most of them were like Jets and Sharks before Drum Corps. But drum corps became like an Officer Krumpke who took them away from rumble situations bound for a life in and out of prison or being carried off the lot dead with a lover behind. It's quite possible that those Bridgemen in 1981 who performed West Side Story were motivated by real life experiences. By 1987 and the Sky Riders, I doubt it.

My parents in I believe 1976 (maybe 1977) for an entire season, drove a gang of 20 inner city, ok African Americans, back to their horrible crime ridden areas after rehearsals. Most today are doctors, lawyers, CEO's, Social Workers etc. They all claim drum corps was the only reason they didn't just get killed like others they grew up with. One mentioned us on WEWS=TV about 5 years ago after winning some LISW award. So, I take this subject of Mom and Pop corps very seriously. And I get really offended by that term used in a negative tone.

Mom and Pop Drum Corps also served the community they served performing at dozens of parades and getting those Jets and Sharks (who's perhaps only interest other than fighting was music) from turning into James Holmes (or whatever the Aurora killer is) or Columbine, Virginia Tech, Fort Hood killers. You started off being a delinquent and a few weeks later only cared about "getting that part right."

Without Drum Corps and voter mentality like was in Rockford in the 1970's musicians only After School choices were go home to an empty house or hang out at the mall probably getting into trouble. I loved Phantom not just for their on field performance but the benefit they served to the Rockford Area.

There weren't just a few more corps. There were thousands of more corps. This year, DCI celebrates having 43 competitive drum corps. When my beloved 1979 Phantom tragically finished second, they were better than maybe up to 2,000 corps most of which never made it to Birmingham but competed in small shows not reported in Drum Corps News. NOTE THE PHRASE MAYBE UP TO 2000, and the word MAYBE. For their were so many corps and so many hundreds of thousands of delinquents turned productive citizens by the age of 21, that Drum Corps News, nor any person could determine a complete list due to the local circuits that weren't part of DCI. On the night of "Tears I" in Birmingham, there were guaranteed a thousand corps.

Today there are 43 competitive corps in the country. On the night of the IC Reveries Sit Down there were Metropolitan Areas that had 10 to 20 corps. We didn't take planes to camps. Most of us could just walk down a few streets, take bikes a few miles or public transportation. On any given summer day as recently as the late 1970's one could fill their car with a tank of gas and check out 7 to 14 local corps practicing. EVERY HIGH School and most every junior high school, most every side street had some number of people in a drum corps. My corps in 1977 had 12 members who went to Parma Senior High or Valley Forge High School.

Today, we have music majors who really don't need to be in a Drum Corps and should probably be spending their summers at jobs paying for their education. It's almost impossible to call Drum Corps a Non Profit Organization anymore. It's questionable that if members who read my posts about establishing University Drum Corps haven't contacted their music deans, to have Drum Corps replace some of their other less important courses, that the members question what they are doing has value. We went to our teachers, employers, family etc. and defended what we were going to do all summer.

If Drum Corps comprised almost entirely of music and performance art majors is so valuable then members should be able to state to deans why they are doing this and why others should do it. And by now, six months later my first crusade, I should be watching UDCI on ESPN.

Back in the Mom and Pop days that Keith Hall degraded, our value was praised in by virtually every mayor, governor,council member, definitely school board, PTA, police department, social worker, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Lyndon Baines Johnson, JFK, up to Ronald Reagan. And everyone else one can think of that endorses an activities social value. Drum Corps was the number one youth activity in terms of participation and overall benefit to society. Maybe more than just youth but all age. There wasn't a weekend long commercial free telethon for the Spirit of Atlanta in 1976-ish to play the best song of all time "Let It Be Me." It was broadcast, donating hours of broadcast time to help Atlanta's youth-not music majors. Jim Ott wasn't just a music instructor he was a father to hundreds.

Comparing on field performance of now versus then is debatably impossible. For now has no rules. Then had rules. If you took the all star members of say, 1978-ish and formed only 43 corps, stated ticks don't matter,provided a third valve,"allowed" asymetric drills, electronics fine and don't even worry about saying AMEN, for you can sing entire songs. It might or might not be better than now. As for taking the NOW members, make them play by our 1970's rules and could they do what we did. If someone ever invents time travel we can find out.

But, the mom and pop era wasn't just about on field performance. There are some really bad parts of some old DVD's. It was about off field benefit with millions of pre-George Hopkins Music major Era youths being alive and well with kids, grand kids, nephews, nieces, awards, resumes etc. Not criminal records and archived histories of Aurora style shootings.

That's all for now, for I have to throw in some Birmingham, Denver DCI DVD's to calm down. Before maybe a Part II. Similar to the fact that ticks don't count. For this posting proofreading I guess won't count.

Thank you.

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Drum Corps used to be a shocking experience for the fan. The sound was sooooo unique and powerful-even the small corps-because of the different timbres of the g horns compared to the traditional marching band brass. While I understand the cost benefit to switching to Bflat brass, I think that by moving to the band style instruments, drum corps lost a tremendous amount of distinctiveness. The activity certainly hasn't gained a bunch of new corps because of the switch. I feel the same way about the electronics. Junior drum corps used a brass/percussion line-up since time immemorial. Yeah I know the early horns didn't have 2 or 3 valves: but the sound was so similar that you had to be an expert (or brass player) to tell the early bugles from the latter ones. Anyone can tell the difference between bflat and g horns. It's that big of a difference. I also think it was a bad move to allow the synths, guitars and so on in DCI. It has altered the sound that was once so attractive to fans. The bflat brass and synths have removed some of drum corps distinctiveness and debased the unique sound.

I also believe that from the 40s-80s drum and bugle corps were soooooo much better and different than the average HS band that folks were willing to go to shows because drum corps was something completely different. People seem to have forgotten (or weren't around) before say the 90s, most HS bands were show style-kind of like the traditionally black/collegiate style: high steppers, hacking drum lines, goofy dancing half-time shows, etc. In that context seeing even the smallest, most primitive drum corps was a revelation to the musicians and audience. Drum corps was light years ahead of HS band and these days, it's just not.

As Cabs jr mentioned the communal/social aspect was/is important. Drum corps was about seeing kids-average kids, probably with no instruction and perhaps a modicum of talent-play like professionals. You could see Johnny from down the street (who used to be a hoodlum!) blow a horn like Louis Armstrong. Plus the selections of the past were universal-my students love when I play big band ( a common music style of past corps) videos-it's an easily enjoyed style. The music choices of today's corps is far less appealing to the average listener or fan. Now, to the music specialists, I'm sure it's great. But to the rest of us, it's just kind of out there.... Being more difficult or sophisticated is not always better. Although the playing and (in some respects) marching ability of today's corps is much better than yesteryear, it's also far less universally pleasing. I think of it this way-the old corps were like a popular publication like a novel, while the DCI of today is like a dry, jargon filled, specialist journal.

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