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Since you just confirmed that Open Class corps, to the best of your knowledge, are a) Getting pushed out of competing at shows alongside the WC corps; b) Only get paid if they compete in shows alongside WC corps, is not your translation above already happening?

i agree that's it's getting harder for OC corps to be admitted into TEP shows, and OC corps do get paid when they do a show with WC corps run by DCI or TEP.

"Getting pushed out..." and "...only get paid..." are your phrases, not mine.

Edited by garfield
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i agree that's it's getting harder for OC corps to be admitted into TEP shows, and OC corps do get paid when they do a show with WC corps run by DCI or TEP.

"Getting pushed out..." and "...only get paid..." are your phrases, not mine.

Yes, pushing out is my terminology. However, before I continue here is a question for you: As a TEP, since you have to foot the up-front bill to put on the show, and you need to place butts in the seats would you: a) want a marque of six well known WC corps, and pay them show fees; b) want a marque of three WC corps and three OC corps, and pay them show fees; or c) want a marque of six OC corps and not have to pay them any show fees.

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Yes, pushing out is my terminology. However, before I continue here is a question for you: As a TEP, since you have to foot the up-front bill to put on the show, and you need to place butts in the seats would you: a) want a marque of six well known WC corps, and pay them show fees; b) want a marque of three WC corps and three OC corps, and pay them show fees; or c) want a marque of six OC corps and not have to pay them any show fees.

Modified B. Our show typically has 8 corps. We strive for 6 WC, 5 of whom finished in the top-12, and 2 OC corps because we believe in giving OC the showcase whenever we have the chance.

It is not yet proven that a show of 8 WC corps puts more BITS than does 6 WC/2 OC corps.

And we push for a late-season show because the corps are closer to peak, however, we've not proven that a later-season show puts more BITS than an earlier show.

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Just curious...hoping someone that really knows (and can confirm how/why they know):

1) At a typical show, do all WC corps receive the same performance fees?

2) If OC corps are present, do they receive the same? or some lower percentage of fees?

3) Do OC really receive zero fees at a OC on;y show?

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Hardly seems fair to those who busted their butts to generate the revenue in the first place!

That's why I'm voting for Romn...eerr nevermind

Yeah Bad idea guys

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Modified B. Our show typically has 8 corps. We strive for 6 WC, 5 of whom finished in the top-12, and 2 OC corps because we believe in giving OC the showcase whenever we have the chance.

It is not yet proven that a show of 8 WC corps puts more BITS than does 6 WC/2 OC corps.

And we push for a late-season show because the corps are closer to peak, however, we've not proven that a later-season show puts more BITS than an earlier show.

Playing Devils Advocate here:

a) If it is not proven that a show consisting of all WC corps puts more BITS then why are many shows around the country going to all WC corps shows?

b) And since there is no proof, why choose that particular breakdown you mentioned? Why not go with 2 Top Twelve WC, 2 Lower Placing WC, 2 Top OC, and 2 Lower Placing OC. I mean if you really do want to provide a showcase for lower corps "when you have a chance" then all you have to do is merely create that chance; why stack an 8 corps show so heavy with 5 top 12 WC corps (especially since there is no proof that a majority of top WC corps put more BITS).

Edited by Stu
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Playing Devils Advocate here:

a) If it is not proven that a show consisting of all WC corps puts more BITS then why are many shows around the country going to all WC corps shows?

b) And since there is no proof, why choose that particular breakdown you mentioned? Why not go with 2 Top Twelve WC, 2 Lower Placing WC, 2 Top OC, and 2 Lower Placing OC. I mean if you really do want to provide a showcase for lower corps "when you have a chance" then all you have to do is merely create that chance; why stack an 8 corps show so heavy with 5 top 12 WC corps (especially since there is no proof that a majority of top WC corps put more BITS).

You have a slight misunderstanding of the process, Stu; if I didn't make this clear it was because I presumed you knew the following, and I want to emphasize that this is my personal experience. The key word in my prior post is "strive".

A show promoter chooses, first, to hold either an all open-class corps or to hold a DCI-TEP show. We are the latter.

TEP's are not allowed to pick and choose who is going to be in their show (again, in my experience). They are only allowed to request certain parameters, not demand. For instance, I suspect that most TEP ask for a top-5 lineup. This year we were asked if we'd like to have a late-season show - two weeks before finals and sandwiched in between Atlanta and A-Town. We were asked, not assigned, about the late date because the per-corps fee that DCI charges is substantially more than an early season show - about twice what we paid for our June show last year. We chose the late-season show believing we would attract more BITS, but agreed only if we could get a top-5 lineup.

DCI chose the corps to perform in our show and asked each if they would do our show. The stability, drawing power, and management of our show were meantioned as reasons we were offered the show.

To make the point, 6 days before our show, DCI pulled Music City out of our show and sent them to VA to perform in a show that had Forte scheduled. Without Forte that show had only 3 OC corps performing. We were not "asked" if DCI could do this and, upon reading our contract, we learned that DCI had every right to make this change. I presume that the TEP of the VA show appealed to DCI for help (I would have), possibly because 3 OC corps would not draw enough BITS to cover costs, and could, potentially, damage the reputation of the their show possibly initiating a "death spiral", taking a show off the tour.

Regardless, it's clear to me that DCI controls the lineup of shows because they have 90+ TEP's to try to keep happy.

DCI is clearly aware of which shows on the tour are well-run and attended, and what corps directors are saying about the production of the show, from facilities to BITS and gate revenue. DCI chooses how they orgainze the tour and each show on the tour.

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You have a slight misunderstanding of the process, Stu; if I didn't make this clear it was because I presumed you knew the following, and I want to emphasize that this is my personal experience. The key word in my prior post is "strive".

A show promoter chooses, first, to hold either an all open-class corps or to hold a DCI-TEP show. We are the latter.

TEP's are not allowed to pick and choose who is going to be in their show (again, in my experience). They are only allowed to request certain parameters, not demand. For instance, I suspect that most TEP ask for a top-5 lineup. This year we were asked if we'd like to have a late-season show - two weeks before finals and sandwiched in between Atlanta and A-Town. We were asked, not assigned, about the late date because the per-corps fee that DCI charges is substantially more than an early season show - about twice what we paid for our June show last year. We chose the late-season show believing we would attract more BITS, but agreed only if we could get a top-5 lineup.

DCI chose the corps to perform in our show and asked each if they would do our show. The stability, drawing power, and management of our show were meantioned as reasons we were offered the show.

To make the point, 6 days before our show, DCI pulled Music City out of our show and sent them to VA to perform in a show that had Forte scheduled. Without Forte that show had only 3 OC corps performing. We were not "asked" if DCI could do this and, upon reading our contract, we learned that DCI had every right to make this change. I presume that the TEP of the VA show appealed to DCI for help (I would have), possibly because 3 OC corps would not draw enough BITS to cover costs, and could, potentially, damage the reputation of the their show possibly initiating a "death spiral", taking a show off the tour.

Regardless, it's clear to me that DCI controls the lineup of shows because they have 90+ TEP's to try to keep happy.

DCI is clearly aware of which shows on the tour are well-run and attended, and what corps directors are saying about the production of the show, from facilities to BITS and gate revenue. DCI chooses how they orgainze the tour and each show on the tour.

Thanks for the clarification. For all the years I have been associated with the drum corps activity I have never been on the TEP side of things and I was not aware of much of what you just explained. I knew that DCI made the schedule; but I thought it was geared more toward accommodating the TEP's who are footing the up-front money to produce the show. The thing is that while DCI is a competitive activity with a perceived Major League (WC) and percieved Minor League (OC) DCI is still a musical concert situation. Therefore, IMO, if those at DCI are interested in the stability and growth of the activity, they will hopefully notice that the opening act/main act show format works very well in the sense it increases the chance of bringing in more and more quality corps to compete in DCI. One look at the world of Rock and a person will see the importance of a group being an opening act for a while can have on helping catapulting that group into stardom.

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