dcikon2 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I figured BD would probably find its way into this topic. I will say that even though I might be considered to be a "dinosaur," I enjoy great staging and music. I think BD's staging went to another level this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) If it was just one or two shows, I'd say we were the same as back in the day. Unfortunately, of the 2011 DVDs, I watch only two corps consistently, and one or two others occasionally. Looking at FN I think it will be the same story this year, although some of the players have changed. Next year, if I do order FN at all I'll order the reduced package without the DVDs. Now it's true - I'm just one guy - but do we really know the impact of the last few years on the fanbase? If you don't like the new stuff, it's huge, if you do like it, it's minimal. The truth will be in the middle somewhere, but being a niche market, that's not something to be ignored. If electronics disappeared tomorrow, on the other hand, how many kids would not come out to auditions on that basis? How many would stop buying the DVDs or attending shows if there were no audio samples. Lot's? None? Same? I can't see that having an impact. So - weigh your options, DCI..... people will say the electronics killed alot...I dont think its been worked well but there has been times I think its cool...if its just electronics I dont think kids would't audition if they went away BUT if we went back to many other things from BITD I think not very many would want to do it. With that said I do think we have lost some of the fan base BUT that didnt just happen. I come from a drum corps family that dates back to 1947 right up to today. I have uncles who marched in the 50s and 60s and said everything people say today about its not drum corps, its ruined, etc etc...they were talking about the 70s and 80s.........when they do see it they do admit how these kids are unbelieveable and asked to do so much compared to BITD BUT they have hated it since I was a kid. Yes I think people left BUT I dont think its the reason some here think it is. There have been many factors and show design could be one but as I said thats been going on since the early 70s. In a way Im surprised the activity still exsists today..when it was formed way back it served a community need , it also was a military thing based off the times, none of that is needed now, kids have many many more choices than we had BITD. They dont need a club or church group..hell I teach now and their smart phones keep them more occupied then what we had..( thats another issue of the times I wont get into now )Look at the boy Scouts as ive said before they have 1/2 the membership they had back in the 70s Edited August 3, 2012 by GUARDLING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller30 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Marching is going to disappear. Music isn't going to disappear. It will look different. It will sound different. All the best, Chuck Naffier Drum Corps Lifer... I could have taken this morning's block off? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 people will say the electronics killed alot...I dont think its been worked well but there has been times I think its cool...if its just electronics I dont think kids would't audition if they went away BUT if we went back to many other things from BITD I think not very many would want to do it. With that said I do think we have lost some of the fan base BUT that didnt just happen. I come from a drum corps family that dates back to 1947 right up to today. I have uncles who marched in the 50s and 60s and said everything people say today about its not drum corps, its ruined, etc etc...they were talking about the 70s and 80s.........when they do see it they do admit how these kids are unbelieveable and asked to do so much compared to BITD BUT they have hated it since I was a kid. Yes I think people left BUT I dont think its the reason some here think it is. There have been many factors and show design could be one but as I said thats been going on since the early 70s. There will always be things people don't like, I agree. I don't think any of the changes through the 70's or '80s had the impact that electronics have had. I lived through those changes too, liked some, grumbled about others, but it was amps that sent me packing for a good 6 years. Allentown last year was my first DCI show since 2005. I had just had enough. I'm not going to any shows this year, but that's down to my daughter's wedding in a couple of weeks, otherwise we probably would be making the trek to Allentown this year. But where my loyalty was once unswerving, it is now tenuous. It woldn't take much to break the hold again and I must admit, with a few exceptions this year has been a disappointment for me. And for the record - my favourite show from last year was Crown. They certainly had electronics, but they didn't push me too far. I'd rather they weren't there at all, and even with Crown, the piano solos make me clench up, but I'm trying to be open minded. A couple of things this year are getting to be a bridge too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 There will always be things people don't like, I agree. I don't think any of the changes through the 70's or '80s had the impact that electronics have had. I lived through those changes too, liked some, grumbled about others, but it was amps that sent me packing for a good 6 years. Allentown last year was my first DCI show since 2005. I had just had enough. I'm not going to any shows this year, but that's down to my daughter's wedding in a couple of weeks, otherwise we probably would be making the trek to Allentown this year. But where my loyalty was once unswerving, it is now tenuous. It woldn't take much to break the hold again and I must admit, with a few exceptions this year has been a disappointment for me. And for the record - my favourite show from last year was Crown. They certainly had electronics, but they didn't push me too far. I'd rather they weren't there at all, and even with Crown, the piano solos make me clench up, but I'm trying to be open minded. A couple of things this year are getting to be a bridge too far. i totally get what youre saying BUT see what you said how the 70s and 80s change didnt have the impact that electronics has had...thats what Im saying...thats not true..mayne to you and me it didnt seem like a big deal or big changes but.many many felt it was impacted way more and then the argument comes in about the hundreds of corps that went down in the 70s and 80s.....every generation feels that way...I cant say I dont like the electronics..or care that we've gone there, What I dont care for is that so many corps havent made it a priority maybe to do it right, instead of hit or miss with many. If they cant do it right, , dont do it, and there should be a choice whether a corps chooses to use them or not and each corps should be judged on what they chose to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 i totally get what youre saying BUT see what you said how the 70s and 80s change didnt have the impact that electronics has had...thats what Im saying...thats not true..mayne to you and me it didnt seem like a big deal or big changes but.many many felt it was impacted way more and then the argument comes in about the hundreds of corps that went down in the 70s and 80s Are you suggesting that those corps folded because we got rid of the timing gun and grounded the pits? I don't think electronics are to blame for the corps we've lost in the past 10 years (unless someone was stupid and overstretched their budget to buy the #### things). I'm saying it drives away fans. The only connection I can see there is less fans = less money = tougher to keep a corps afloat. That's not an argument I've made up to now but if you want to relate it that way, all the more reason to ditch the things. .....every generation feels that way...I cant say I dont like the electronics..or care that we've gone there, What I dont care for is that so many corps havent made it a priority maybe to do it right, instead of hit or miss with many. If they cant do it right, , dont do it, and there should be a choice whether a corps chooses to use them or not and each corps should be judged on what they chose to do. I think staffs are egotistical. Those other guys can't get it right, but we can. But they don't, and the kids and fans suffer by it.... To bring it into the arena that you seem to live in - the guard. The changes in the way guards perform have had a result on me as a spectator. I never watch them any more. It's too bad, because those kids are killing themselves out there every night, but the dancing becomes pretty much invisible once you get above 30 rows back. The big tricks and equipment exchanges used to really draw my attention away from the drumline, but now I'm afraid I'm barely aware of the guard unless I see some rifles go into the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Are you suggesting that those corps folded because we got rid of the timing gun and grounded the pits? I don't think electronics are to blame for the corps we've lost in the past 10 years (unless someone was stupid and overstretched their budget to buy the #### things). I'm saying it drives away fans. The only connection I can see there is less fans = less money = tougher to keep a corps afloat. That's not an argument I've made up to now but if you want to relate it that way, all the more reason to ditch the things. I think staffs are egotistical. Those other guys can't get it right, but we can. But they don't, and the kids and fans suffer by it.... To bring it into the arena that you seem to live in - the guard. The changes in the way guards perform have had a result on me as a spectator. I never watch them any more. It's too bad, because those kids are killing themselves out there every night, but the dancing becomes pretty much invisible once you get above 30 rows back. The big tricks and equipment exchanges used to really draw my attention away from the drumline, but now I'm afraid I'm barely aware of the guard unless I see some rifles go into the air. NOOOOO No , im not suggesting corps folded back then due to those things but many thought corps folded because the times, rules, choices, shows were all changing from what drum corps was...its just a new way...some things will go back but never exactly the way we did it. I actually marched as a horn player most of my days then my last 2 years in the guard BUT Ive taught guard all these years. I think the gaurds have much more responsibility then we did BITD and theres so many more ways to create effect than just things in the air BUT I do like seeing the tricks sometimes ( not all the time otherwise its no big deal ) Youre right staffs can have an ego BUT Ive either marched under or worked with the best of the best of our activities history and they all had egos....its a creative activity and egos have always been there.. I do appreciate the calm conversation we are having its rare here sometimes..lol Edited August 3, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cache_Money Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Great, thought provoking, post. I'll be honest and say the Blue Devils was not my cup of tea (nor most of those in attendance at DCI South - even from old-school BD fans the collective reaction was "What the heck was that!?!"). That being said do I think there is a place for that type of show? Absolutely. The question becomes "How do you judge shows that are so disparate in theme, style, and substance?" For instance, how do you take a Jersey Surf show which apparently constantly entertains, with a Madison Scouts with a bit more "traditional" show, with the Cadets whose theme is ever-present while still incorporating newish twists (e.g., recorded voice), with Blue Devils who decided to create their own rule-book this year in terms of what a show is (more Cirque du Soleil event than traditional drum corps show)? This is the key to the whole shebang. The fans that have an issue with the show are not upset that the Devils are putting on this kind of show. They're upset that it's winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) NOOOOO No , im not suggesting corps folded back then due to those things but many thought corps folded because the times, rules, choices, shows were all changing from what drum corps was...its just a new way...some things will go back but never exactly the way we did it. I'm not sure things will go back even a little bit. That would be an admission of a mistake and I honestly think the collective ego of DCI won't be willing to go there. The best hope is that some design elements are so ridiculed in places like DCP, and that some shows get the golf clap regardless of the talent level of the members, that some things will just quietly fall into disuse, the way (thankfully, mercifully) micced voice seems to have gone. (I better not say that too loud....) I actually marched as a horn player most of my days then my last 2 years in the guard BUT Ive taught guard all these years. I think the gaurds have much more responsibility then we did BITD and theres so many more ways to create effect than just things in the air BUT I do like seeing the tricks sometimes ( not all the time otherwise its no big deal ) Youre right staffs can have an ego BUT Ive either marched under or worled with the best of the best of our activities history and they all had egos....its a creative activity and egos have always been there.. I do appreciate the calm conversation we are having its rare here sometimes..lol Well - I'm a drummer so that's where my attention is for most of the show, but in the '80s guards like Cavies and 27 would regularly pull me into their part of the field with wild exchanges over the hornline etc. Absolutley they should not comprise the whole show, but in all honesty, I really can't think of one "WOW" guard moment from recent memory, whereas it's not hard for me to come up with all kinds from BITD. Agreed - I'm enjoying this chat and I thank you for it. We have some differences of opinion but neither of us has felt compelled to rip the other's throat out. At least, not yet! They should let the two of us run DCI for a couple of years just to see what would happen, maybe? Edited August 3, 2012 by Grandpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I'm not sure things will go back even a little bit. That would be an admission of a mistake and I honestly think the collective ego of DCI won't be willing to go there. The best hope is that some design elements are so ridiculed in places like DCP, and that some shows get the golf clap regardless of the talent level of the members, that some things will just quietly fall into disuse, the way (thankfully, mercifully) micced voice seems to have gone. (I better not say that too loud....) Well - I'm a drummer so that's where my attention is for most of the show, but in the '80s guards like Cavies and 27 would regularly pull me into their part of the field with wild exchanges over the hornline etc. Absolutley they should not comprise the whole show, but in all honesty, I really can't think of one "WOW" guard moment from recent memory, whereas it's not hard for me to come up with all kinds from BITD. Agreed - I'm enjoying this chat and I thank you for it. We have some differences of opinion but neither of us has felt compelled to rip the other's throat out. At least, not yet! They should let the two of us run DCI for a couple of years just to see what would happen, maybe? lol..omg...as far as guard some things actually have gone back...just a bit....there has been some exchanges again just in a different way...as soon as artistry came into play there had to be more ways to create effect other than the obvious..Im not agreeing or disagreeing BUT I think some of the past can easily be incorporated today. OMG a drummer....lol.....i remember back in the day threatining drummers with bodily harm if they drummed on the back of my seat for weeks,,,lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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