DCI 30 years ago, and the decline of Drum Corps.

[MikeD]

Take respite in the fact that most corps are adamant about making sure their members know, acknowledge, and respect the history of those that came before. I know that's the case with the Blue Devils, and corps like Spirit and Crossmen as well. I would be surprised if there was any corps out there that didn't teach their history.

Cadets as well.

[flammaster]

It makes zero sense to start a local drum corps in a place that is well served by scholastic marching band. This would be pretty much a redundant experience, and kids would likely not be all that interested.

In the case where there is no local marching band program... youth would likely be better served by supporting a marching band program in the local schools. On top of having facilities and built in support system, chools are simply better set up for this than a local independent organization would be. If you're talking about a touring group, then that's a different story. Independent is much better for a variety of reasons.

Ummmm well Foothill high school is a big feeder program for BDB and we are going to start with the middle schools to feed the high school. (Andrew Odello)

Amador high school is a big feeder for Vanguard Cadets. (Casey Brohard)

[danielray]

I quoted this so when you sober up you can't delete it.

My god what arrogance.

Where do you think the Blue Devils came from?

Krypton?

They WERE the epitomy of "scrappy local corps".

They started as a drum and BELL corps.

History. Who cares?

BD really started in 71 (yeah, was a drum and bell corps for ages before that... but, when they became a drum corps, was suddenly a completely different staff, emphasis, approach and kids), made finals in 74 and won in 76. That is pretty far from scrappy.

Anyway, you can't really do that these days. You can't go from scrappy to winning in that period of time, not even with a massive amount of cash. There are just so many other factors now.

My point here, again, is quite simply that schools are better set up for local programs and building support for these around the schools is a much more efficient use of resources than starting a scrappy local corps.

[danielray]

Are you now of the belief that any adult associated with drum corps is a potential pedo? Better fire all the instructors in DCI....

Don't be silly. Has nothing to do with that. I just don't think it is a good idea to mix kids with adults in drum corps, simply because kids are at different life stage. The same reason I don't like the idea of mixing 12 year olds in corps with 21. Different life stages and need different types of support.

Why should I if i'm interested in drum corps, not band? Drum corps can arrange all the things you describe. You're copping out again. "Let someone else do it - it's too hard....."

Support a local high school program that excludes woodwinds. Encourage them to also have a summer program. Problem solved.

You keep missing that my point that it isn't about instrumentation, isn't about summer vs. fall, but is about building programs around the schools because it is infinitely more efficient.

Why create an independent group, then turn around and rent facilities from a school, when the program could be built around the school in the first place?

Because to a growing segment of the youth demographic, we're losing a unique musical performance genre. That matters.

Drum corps is still here and great as ever. But, how are we losing a something considered highly unique when the average guy on the street can't tell the difference between drum corps and marching band? Drum corps isn't all that unique from marching band... just no woodwinds. Big deal.

See my note above and add - if they're performing at a show this Saturday they are less likely to be breaking into your garage. Seriously, you need an answer to that question?

Kids involved in music, whether it is summer or fall or year round are less likely to be involved in crime. Doesn't really matter when it is.

And believe me, with the hoops you have to jump through to incorporate and establish a charitable status to start a corps, it's anything but scrappy and ad hoc, but thanks for the side swipe all the same.

Hoops? It takes 5 minutes and about $500 and can be done entirely online. I've done it.

When did I say DCI? Being local and regional precludes being associated with DCI in any meaningful way.

Except for the fact that there are currently many local and regional corps that compete within the DCI circuit.

Anyway, it seems the point for some people is to create something different or create something local because they don't dig DCI and want to recreate the past. Whatever the motivation, if you can create something that kids dig and provides a quality experience. Why not? I'm just saying it's infinitely more efficient to do this through the schools than independently.

[Grandpa]

Don't be silly. Has nothing to do with that. I just don't think it is a good idea to mix kids with adults in drum corps, simply because kids are at different life stage. The same reason I don't like the idea of mixing 12 year olds in corps with 21. Different life stages and need different types of support.

Then you will be happy to know our recruiting is aimed at 12-16 year olds.

Support a local high school program that excludes woodwinds. Encourage them to also have a summer program. Problem solved.

You keep missing that my point that it isn't about instrumentation, isn't about summer vs. fall, but is about building programs around the schools because it is infinitely more efficient.

Copping out - again. Too hard so let someone else do a watered-down version of drum corps.....

I'll say it again - no bands around here. They have other things to spend their budgets on.

Why create an independent group, then turn around and rent facilities from a school, when the program could be built around the school in the first place?

Charitable organizations can use school facilities for free as long as you carry liability insurance.

Drum corps is still here and great as ever. But, how are we losing a something considered highly unique when the average guy on the street can't tell the difference between drum corps and marching band? Drum corps isn't all that unique from marching band... just no woodwinds. Big deal.

For those of us who actually care about drum corps, it is a big deal. I'm not sure if i will be able to make you understand that.

Kids involved in music, whether it is summer or fall or year round are less likely to be involved in crime. Doesn't really matter when it is.

So having a program that runs year round is a good idea, right?

Hoops? It takes 5 minutes and about $500 and can be done entirely online. I've done it.

Clearly you've never done it in Canada.

Except for the fact that there are currently many local and regional corps that compete within the DCI circuit.

Anyway, it seems the point for some people is to create something different or create something local because they don't dig DCI and want to recreate the past. Whatever the motivation, if you can create something that kids dig and provides a quality experience. Why not? I'm just saying it's infinitely more efficient to do this through the schools than independently.

I'm not anti-DCI per se, I just see it as so expensive to participate that it's out of reach for startups, and that financial hurdle discourages people from even trying. If we ever get to the point where we can compete in DCI in a way that is fiscally responsible and beneficial to the members, I'm OK with that. But we have no such aspirations for at least 5 years. So I object to the pompous and dismissive accusation of "wanting to re-create the past". We're trying to bring something we love to a generation that has no idea they can participate. It frankly floors me that on a discussion board dedicated to drum corps, I actually have to defend that idea.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Grandpa

[danielray]

Clearly you've never done it in Canada.

I forget you're in Canada. Different dynamics there.

But to answer your question...

[Grandpa]

I forget you're in Canada. Different dynamics there.

But to answer your question...

Yeah - we figure if we can get through the government things (incorporation and charitable status happen at two different levels of government, provincial and federal) we will have cleared a big hurdle and can start fundraising. They want everything, constitution, structure, name search. I do love dealing with government......

[JimF-LowBari]

It makes zero sense to start a local drum corps in a place that is well served by scholastic marching band. This would be pretty much a redundant experience, and kids would likely not be all that interested.

Note: Re-read and noticed you didn't say competetive(aka - comp) MB. Having been in non-comp MB and comp DC it's a world of difference and even the people from comp MB though so.

Just how big of an area do you think local HSs cover in the States? In my area of PA there are more than one (quessing 6-8) districts per county and some districts have more than one High School. And each school is the one that decides if the band competes or even how mouch resourcs they receive.

My district has 2 HS school about 2 miles apart (before the one school moved). World of difference between the arts some years. And few miles away is a city school with almost no arts (actually surviving under public donations).

My point is within a "local" area you can have a wide range of how kids are "served" by MB.

Edit: Saw your post about mixing adults and youth. When our corps restarted about half was HS/college age and half older. As a 16 yr old starting out it was a great experience in real life as for the first time I got to work with people different from me in age and lfe experiences. Served me well in my later life as I learned not to judge those who are "different". Worked #### well when I went overseas and was dealing with the local residents.

Edited August 12, 2012 by JimF-LowBari

[Hup234]

Call me old fashioned, but I love the old days.

I call you astute, and honest.

[Tim K]

BD really started in 71 (yeah, was a drum and bell corps for ages before that... but, when they became a drum corps, was suddenly a completely different staff, emphasis, approach and kids), made finals in 74 and won in 76. That is pretty far from scrappy.

Anyway, you can't really do that these days. You can't go from scrappy to winning in that period of time, not even with a massive amount of cash. There are just so many other factors now.

My point here, again, is quite simply that schools are better set up for local programs and building support for these around the schools is a much more efficient use of resources than starting a scrappy local corps.

Drama is pretty popular in my area, and many high schools, both public and private, have excellent drama programs. These programs include a good number of young people and everyone seems to find a home in a production if he/she so desires. However, students who take drama seriously and want to take it to the next level are usually involved in community theater programs and semi-professional productions. The same is true with athletics. School teams satisfy many athletes, but those who want more pursue AAU programs. This is how I distinguish high school music programs and drum corps. High school programs offer great musical opportunities for a wide range of young people but some will want more than what the school offers. Drum corps can and does fit this void.

Also, I'm not sure that creating "scrappy" drum corps is a problem. For one thing, the time involved and money necessary would keep them from being "scrappy." Also, scrappy is a matter of opinion. Without naming names, I admire the heart of some smaller corps as I do the excellence of the top 12. For me, drum corps is an experience and it's my hope the experience can be open to as many as possible.