Field Judges need to be limited to the front sideline

[crfrey71]

A few rebuttal points...

1. These were the "tic" judges and the whole point of their purpose to begin with. They did not "reward," but only looked for errors, i.e..."tics."

2. Yes, they have been doing this forever, back when the drill was much slower and not as complex as you see in today's activity. Being in shape is not the concern, but just being out of the way is.

3. I'm a brass guy and I can clearly hear from the front sidelines when the hornline is breathing thru the instrument and affecting their tone quality. I can also certainly hear intonation issues and just basic overall tone quality. The only time the judge needs to move is if the entire hornline is all off to one side of the 50 or way in the back. They don't need to be 5 feet from the horn player.

4. The visual judge, the same thing. You can clearly see feet, body form,lines, etc... better from being a bit away from them than right on top of them.

5. Now the battery judge... He's running around for his life so much that my very basic question is, how can you accurately judge, when your worried about be ran over, swallowed up, etc... most of the performance?

We have some very prestigious marching band circuits which do not have field judges at all. So obviously, I am not the only one who sees it this way.

My solution would be to stay on the outside of the forms as much as possible. That is all I am really asking for.

Edited August 11, 2012 by crfrey71

[GREENBLUE]

Quick question...which of the brass n visual judge is on the field? The analysis judge?

[wvu80]

100% AGREE. We have 20th century judging and 21st century drill. It's time for judging to catch up to the 21st century and recognize drill is NOT done the same as it was 40 years ago.

Get the judges off the field.

Edited August 11, 2012 by wvu80

[Peel Paint]

It's a DCI tradition, and so unfortunately it is unlikely to change until there have been one or two accidents where somebody is very badly hurt and lawsuits fly... or until their liability insurance company sees it and tells DCI to cut it out. That forces a lot of changes in things like this these days.

[BOSMarcher]

Dude, he's got a point. Take a look at Cadets 2000 at the end of the opener. The percussion judge trips up a mellophone as the mellophone player was backing into a set. I'm not sure if they should be on the sideline, but something needs to be looked at.

Well, at the Indy regional (maybe 2004?) a judge was hit in the face by a guard rifle or the Bluecoats. I am not sure if it broke his nose, but I know there was a picture floating that had a good deal of gauze stuck in it, and it had been bleeding. So... people have gotten hurt in the past. I agree that the percussion judge would need to still be be back there, but you could move the others to the sideline and be fine. At least you would eliminate most of the problem.

[Grandpa]

A few rebuttal points...

1. These were the "tic" judges and the whole point of their purpose to begin with. They did not "reward," but only looked for errors, i.e..."tics."

2. Yes, they have been doing this forever, back when the drill was much slower and not as complex as you see in today's activity. Being in shape is not the concern, but just being out of the way is.

3. I'm a brass guy and I can clearly hear from the front sidelines when the hornline is breathing thru the instrument and affecting their tone quality. I can also certainly hear intonation issues and just basic overall tone quality. The only time the judge needs to move is if the entire hornline is all off to one side of the 50 or way in the back. They don't need to be 5 feet from the horn player.

4. The visual judge, the same thing. You can clearly see feet, body form,lines, etc... better from being a bit away from them than right on top of them.

5. Now the battery judge... He's running around for his life so much that my very basic question is, how can you accurately judge, when your worried about be ran over, swallowed up, etc... most of the performance?

We have some very prestigious marching band circuits which do not have field judges at all. So obviously, I am not the only one who sees it this way.

My solution would be to stay on the outside of the forms as much as possible. That is all I am really asking for.

Good points sir - very good points.

# 5 in particular may have have changed my mind on this.

[chasgroh]

A few rebuttal points...

1. These were the "tic" judges and the whole point of their purpose to begin with. They did not "reward," but only looked for errors, i.e..."tics."

2. Yes, they have been doing this forever, back when the drill was much slower and not as complex as you see in today's activity. Being in shape is not the concern, but just being out of the way is.

3. I'm a brass guy and I can clearly hear from the front sidelines when the hornline is breathing thru the instrument and affecting their tone quality. I can also certainly hear intonation issues and just basic overall tone quality. The only time the judge needs to move is if the entire hornline is all off to one side of the 50 or way in the back. They don't need to be 5 feet from the horn player.

4. The visual judge, the same thing. You can clearly see feet, body form,lines, etc... better from being a bit away from them than right on top of them.

5. Now the battery judge... He's running around for his life so much that my very basic question is, how can you accurately judge, when your worried about be ran over, swallowed up, etc... most of the performance?

We have some very prestigious marching band circuits which do not have field judges at all. So obviously, I am not the only one who sees it this way.

My solution would be to stay on the outside of the forms as much as possible. That is all I am really asking for.

...couple of comments, Chas: AFA "Tic" judging vs. buildup I think it's the same thing, you're still assessing performance, albeit in polar opposites...I actually think the present system is much more fair, in that your head is always up and evaluation doesn't stop. The sample, though, is the nut for me, that's where the field guys have to be able to move around. Both horn and visual people can, and mostly DO, stand off...my point about the visual evaluation is that if you restrict the judge to the front sideline you take 50% of all angles away; they just aren't there anymore, and a good visual staff will quickly learn to prioritize different performer positions to favor those viewable angles (trust me, I do it ALL the time in bando stuff). So, there is that. The percussion judges seem to be at the heart of the matter, because they, indeed, try to get inside the drill so as to be close to the battery and, yes, they occasionally cause problems; I dunno 'bout this aspect, because on one hand I want the evaluation to be as good as it can get, but on the other drill velocity and proximity can be dangerous to both judge and performer. I got knocked around following BK's percussion in a rehearsal and know the feeling! So, maybe these guys need to get a couple of takes on a show before going in? Maybe they need to be required to *be able* to do the physical part of their gig? Tough one here, but not on the horn/visual side of the question...they can surely stand off, go backfield, find angles and stay out of the way.

Edited August 11, 2012 by chasgroh

[Michael Boo]

If it wasn't for the extra expense, I'd like to see a separate judge evaluating the front ensemble. There's quite a lot of stuff going on there and timing is as important as what happens in the battery. A judge can't effectively consider the pit and the battery when they're on opposite sides of the field.

I'd love to get the percussion judge off the field, because it does seem like a matter of time before one gets clocked in the head by a flag pole he doesn't see coming, or jumps the wrong direction and takes out a drummer, or has a physical issue transpire that presents a danger to corps members backing up who can't see him being immobile. Yet, with the level of performance we've got being presented, it seems that being out with the battery is the only way to separate excellence from super excellence from super duper excellence.

My ultimate solution is to commission the construction of the DCI Judge Blimp. The on-field judge would become the above-field judge, with the blimp being set on autopilot to stay above the level of guard equipment tosses. The judge would control directional flight with a joystick while talking into a Bluetooth microphone set up to his digital recorder, which is then wirelessly transferred to the main judging station so he doesn't have to land between corps. His scores would be transmitted wirelessly to the tabulator. This way, the judge can always be wherever he deems most appropriate.

Now, what would we name the blimp? (One nomination for this might be "Goodhart," playing off "Goodyear" and the last name of a DCI percussion judge that has judged since the formation of DCI.)

[corpsreps]

I second the idea of a separate front ensemble judge. There is way too much happening there which you can't possibly evaluate when you are on the field. My main concern with the percussion judge on the field is you cannot evaluate the whole percussion section and clearly from the judge's typical position, the snare line is the primary driver of the score, with bass and tenors only when featured and the pit only when the battery takes a break.

[actucker]

I second the idea of a separate front ensemble judge. There is way too much happening there which you can't possibly evaluate when you are on the field. My main concern with the percussion judge on the field is you cannot evaluate the whole percussion section and clearly from the judge's typical position, the snare line is the primary driver of the score, with bass and tenors only when featured and the pit only when the battery takes a break.

I think this issue has gotten a little better in the last decade or so, but I can still see it as a problem. I'm seeing more field judges spend more time up front than they used to. That being said, I like the idea of two judges. Percussion is pretty unique in that the percussion ensemble is split across the field with an entirely different section separating them for the majority of the show.