DCI's "Artistic Shift"

[wallace]

I didn't love Cadets 2009 as much because they've already shown us what perfect West Side Story looks/sounds like.

I found some sections of 2009 a very refreshing look at WSS particularly the ballad.

I have found Madison's redux shows quite entertaining as well. Placement is a different argument:)

I wonder...if your local symphony pulls out and blows the dust off some Bach fugues for the Spring Concert Series then are you going to complain that they are not attempting "new" music? Since you've already know what a fugue sounds like it shouldn't be shared with a whole new generation of listeners?

Why should the power and beauty of Channel One, Jeremiah, Malaga, Phantom of the Opera, or Variations on a Korean Folk Song be relegated to old videos that do not do them justice? If a new generation heard these shows live they would throw babies just like we did!

[HPUEuph]

When people bring up the whole "lets think of the performers" I always tend to scoff at the comment. Not because I don't support them, I do, and was one of them but because I believe most all of us see it as a given.* The question being tossed around here is not the performers or the skills and abilities of the designers but the direction and composition of shows. Even the designers of poorly conceived shows are talented though maybe not that season or just not up to snuff with their peers but they are talented in their own right; similar to the worst athlete in their professional sport, while the worst, they're still far better than many others. Remember, drumcorps is an art form and is not supposed to please everyone, it's impossible. Are the following art? some would say so and others not.

Heck, even the DaDa movement wasn't liked by many when it sprang up, just like some DCI fans this season.

Bottom line, it doesn't matter if person A or B are pleased because that's not the intention to please everyone. While you would like to put fourth an entertaining show it is also about placement and like in any competitive scored activity, competitiveness drives what one will see. If you want shows to please everyone then exhibitions are what you want. I don't even think we should argue about why we're arguing because art is subjective by its very nature and that's what makes it great.

* Now, if you want to talk about people not respecting corps and/or members then I would put that with attendance for performances of corps below the top 12 especially. Bottom line actions speak larger than words. Granted off topic but I believe that is where statements regarding respect for corps and their members belongs, not in an artistic development thread.

[supersop]

I can't believe some people just won't give these designers the respect that they need and deserve. Sure it's fine to have your likes and dislikes about corps and shows but these individuals are putting they're blood, sweat and tears into the products they give these fine students. People need to realize we are in a different time with new designers coming amongst us to help this activity grow, we are not the same people from the 70's, 80's and 90's. Each decade should be about having something new to bring to the table with some things from the past as well otherwise we would have the same shows every year.

I don't think enough praise and thanks have gone to those individuals and specially the students who work hard to bring you a product their proud of to you. Now it's more about bickering about who's not tradional or who's innovative or who's to innovative I don't understand it. Be happy to have a variety of corps and performances even if you don't care for them otherwise you'll just sit in the stands and think didn't I just see this show a minute ago. Let these corps find who they want to be in this time period whether it be going back to their roots or making a new Identity becuase you never know how long it will last.

It also makes me upset when people don't want to see WGI judges judge a Visual or GE caption, some people don't understand more than half the of the individuals who do wgi whether a Judge, Director, or Performer are also Musicians as well including myself. They're training is not just in the world of guard. Both DCI and WGI can learn a lot from each other. I really disagree with people thinking that the Wgi judges who judge Visual or GE captions shouldn't judge those and should just stick to guard because theirs a caption for that and they think thats all they look at anyways which is totally not true. Yes the guard helps in the Visual and GE captions but thats not the predominant thing they look at. They are a corps for a reason they are One a family not Individuals so they look at them as one! I commend these judges whether right or wrong because it's not easy being a judge as I am figuring that out with having started training in my local circuit. I think the biggest reward these students have is being able to perform and do something they love to do for fans and millions around the world.

I agree with and commend everything you've just said. I'm not trying to bicker in any way.

I guess what I've been trying to get at is something very simple and as passionate as the words you just spoke. The vision of what is drum corps has changed. There either doesn't appear to be leadership that is keeping things defined very well .. or the definition has changed into something a good chunk of us no longer understand. Everyone involved in this activity, including judges, have a deep passion for what they are doing. That includes us. And by discussion what is going on .. how things are changing .. why they are changing ... or why it seems out of control is the very point of this thread.

It's the "Artistic Shift". Is it just happening on it's own? Or is it a directive from the Artistic Director? I've tried to focus on what the judging sheets say ... how they are being interpreted .. and what's wrong with the system being used. I fully realize that my thoughts and espouses are probably just words on a page that will never be read by those who can affect change or define the change that has already taken place .. but it makes me feel better to say it out loud and hope that someone can help me make sense of it all.

Tradition does have to mean something. Innovation is great .... but the core values and ideals of what Drum and Bugle corps means is slowly being changed into something I no longer recognize (save for a few fine examples that I really enjoy). I admired every corps that hit the field this season ... I really found something to like about everyone .... but that doesn't change the fact that the system that judges this activity is out of sorts. That's about all I can say.

[Granny Smith]

Okay...so...I'm about ready to step in it, but please remember when your teacher used to say, "There's no such thing as a stupid question."

I saw two shows in particular this year that really seemed to fail to connect with the crowd generally. The first was the Troopers and the second was the Blue Devils. After both corps left the field there was a collective, "uh. mmmm. not sure what that was."

I am not comparing the execution of these two shows, but Cesario says in the article, ". One of the biggest interests is making our shows “COMPELLING”. We want to present convincing, persuasive programs---things that grab the fans and find a way of bringing them to the Corps."

Please forgive me for this lame question, but as it relates to this "Grab Effect" are there similarities between these two shows in this area?

[corpsband]

I'm personally not saying that the judging failed in anyway: kind of the contrary, actually

I agree-- you seem to be rebutting that point of view. But you're still begging the question by trying to support your point of view with the very items that are being calling into question by the OP.

Edited August 14, 2012 by corpsband

[corpsband]

Ha, that's exactly what I thought when I read that! I feel all warm and fuzzy whenever I hear someone use the phrase "beg the question" correctly. All those philosophy classes...

http://yourlogicalfa...ng-the-question

Glad to oblige :-)

[olddawg]

Am I the only person who heard Cesario state in an interview some time earlier this year or last that the sheets were changing to match what the corps were doing as the corps themselves had outstripped the criteria on the old sheets? I swear I heard that. If that is the case (and if I'm not totally losing it), there should have been no change in the outcomes at all. Indeed, the sheets appear more WGI-like, and more of the staff/designers/judges crossover, so why not harmonize the criteria?

[Njfritz]

You know, DCI may be artsy, but its not too far. I don't think it can go any further than it has really, like I don't think its possible.

Consider the following, do you really think its possible to do a show based off of takashi murakami's ideas?

I don't think its possible...

[olddawg]

1344849169[/url]' post='3204629']

I can't believe some people just won't give these designers the respect that they need and deserve. Sure it's fine to have your likes and dislikes about corps and shows but these individuals are putting they're blood, sweat and tears into the products they give these fine students. People need to realize we are in a different time with new designers coming amongst us to help this activity grow, we are not the same people from the 70's, 80's and 90's. Each decade should be about having something new to bring to the table with some things from the past as well otherwise we would have the same shows every year.

I don't think enough praise and thanks have gone to those individuals and specially the students who work hard to bring you a product their proud of to you.

Really? If these designers of which you speak are true artists, then they should be able to take any public commentary/criticism with a grain of salt. As to respect they allegedly "need"? Really? They (the designers) need respect from DCP, a forum of anonymous (relatively) commentary/criticism made up of people with widely varying views on what drum corps is and/or should be? If that is the case, they (the designers) need to, respectfully, grow some. I think the volume of discussion for or against particular shows is praise in itself for the designers. Whether perceived good or bad, the (artistic) product had an impact on someone to a degree to make that person share his or her opinion on a public forum. I'd say that was successful art, whether it won the prize or not. Whether it was good drum corps, is a different question

[craiga]

Supersop, I have great respect for your opinions, and I would like to add my own. I think you said (several pages ago) something like "most folks would say that Madison was the best of the 7-9 corps". I would politely disagree with you. I think most folks LOVE Madison(myself included), but that doesn't necessarily equate to a specific placement. I also LOVED Surf this year, but I wouldn't have put them any higher in placement than they finished. So, we can agreeably disagree on that point.

I DO have one observation, however, and this is not directed at Supersop or any one person. To all the "Old School" or "Traditionalists" out there, I am SURPRISED that more of you don't jump on the Boston bandwagon.

Consider this, (and this has NOTHING to do with coming in 7th):

Here is a drum corps which for the past 5 years has been going out of its way to produce and execute shows which in some ways, are the most traditional on the field, while still remaining competitive. In a year when the Cavies are doing Lady Gaga, dubstep, and a music video ending, BK is sampling Star Trek theme music, BD is of course, being BD, and many corps are using synths to double their low brass, we find the 72 year old Boston Crusaders:

NO voiceovers.

Synth was used sparingly, to the point where at the TOC finale they didn't bring the electronics out and most folks probably didn't even notice it.

Charlie's bari solo, played from midfield or behind, was NOT miked (for the second year in a row).

NO sampling.

No pre-recorded soundtracks.

216 drill sets with only one brief "scatter" that I recall.

Melodic arrangements of great classic masterpieces.

And my favorite, a corps uniform that in terms of look, is right out of 1977. Heck,

the hornline even had a couple left- and right-about moves in the drill!

I am NOT criticizing the other teams, but JEEZ, if you are "Old School", how much more could you get?

AND, they CERTAINLY remain competitive nonetheless....I think some credit should go to BAC for the NEO-Old School niche they have carved out for themselves. The whole BD thing bothers me a whole lot less knowing the antithesis it still out there, AND it's not going away any time soon.

Even with all these traditional aspects of its production, BAC placed 7th. As a 52 year old, I'll just say it: The Sky is NOT falling.