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An Open Letter to JulesBry and to those


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OK, this is most intriguing, to be sure, but...

1) You misunderstand at least some of those green-plussers. Having read Jules' thread just this evening, before having a look at yours), I up-voted it for eloquently expressing some of the same concerns I share about the design of today's shows, without either agreeing in total or planning to end my spectatorship. (In fact, I bought some souvenirs for the first time this year: shirts from Legends, SCVC, and Boston.)

2) You indicate later in this thread that the changes you darkly prophesy concern business rather than artistic matters, so it's not clear that they will help Jules out of this predicament.

3) How on earth could Jules and those supporting that thread be expected to know what you know?

That is to say:

Great! But what most strikes me about your post is the acknowledgment that things are indeed in trouble! This is not so far from Jules' thread, really -- tempered only by your special knowledge that this moment in time is the bottom of a curve (please let it be so) and not just a point on the further descent in to the abyss. What you say "usually" applies (in some fields) need not apply here. I daresay that most of humankind's institutions and creations have died and been lost, despite the claims of some along the way that better things were just around the corner.

I hope you are correct and I'm grateful for your hint of optimism, but I wonder if it might have been offered sooner, to forestall the departures of people who really do want to enjoy drum corps. Is the "terrible timing" theirs?

"Darkly prophesize"? You must have missed the several times I stated my increased optimism. The future isn't always dark, and I surely didn't suggest it is.

I recognize that not all those who green+ JulesBry's post are leaving. But I surely don't understand those who upvote it just because it's "eloquent". To me, content matters even if I'm counted among the grammar police!

How is anyone to know? How do you think I know?

I don't have special knowledge except to the extent that I've spent an entire career spotting trends. If that means I have "special knowledge" about what's going on in drum corps it's only because I've spent the time necessary to find out the facts and form an opinion. In short, I've stayed involved.

One doesn't attain "special knowledge" by giving up and walking away.

Edited by garfield
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Garfield - The frustrating part of your inside knowledge is that you can't or won't share what you know. Now, if you really know something, I could understand and respect your need to keep it a secret. But throwing out this hope in an attempt to keep anyone thinking of leaving their support of the activity, only frustrates those same people, and potentially sets people on either side of that decision up for possible disappointment. Sometimes things like this that can't be fully disclosed are better off not said at all until they are ready for public consumption in their entirety.

And I am one who is hoping for great things....as I have been really trying to give some of the changes made a chance to grow on me, but they are not. Thanks.

Some of those same people may be prompted to investigate the claims of some mad DCP poster in hopes of being able to prove what he says.

Had JulesBry not posted "An Open Letter...", I'd have continued to say nothing.

I have no control over the level of disappointment in anyone. I only have control over what I say and do. If, in the process, I can help stop someone else from jumping too quickly, then the activity has been benefited, no?

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When I read the beginnings of the Open Letter to DCI I was preparing to head out to my 27th consecutive finals. My first reaction was that I feel sorry for JulesBry. Really sorry, because your timing is horrible.

Now that I've arrived back home, completely saturated with drum corps, I see that the JulesBry's thoughts are shared by 40+ people who took the time to green+ the letter's point. I presume that those 40+ people are now gone from drum corps. So what, I say. Big deal. You all have terrible timing.

Any serious fan of the activity who's been watching realizes that DCI is, structurally, at one of its lowest points in history. It is usually these times when significant change happens, usually instigated by the most serious thinkers and doers of the activity. This is the bottom, not the top, of the direction DCI's future holds. Those of you who are bolting are probably the ones who sold all your stocks in 2008. Your timing is terrible.

There is great and serious change coming to DCI. While it's undeterminable to presume the future is all sun flowers and puppy dogs, those of us who hang around are going to witness something new. What's next in the DCI saga is NOT death, quite the contrary. The players whose lives breath drum corps daily all recognize the importance of the next steps, and what's planned will likely be a day recognized and discussed like the birth of DCI and the 2010 great attempted mutiny of the G8.

Those of you who buy the JulesBry's sentiment and agree to the extent of leaving - which I suspect JulesBry never intended to do as much as get those feelings posted to DCP - will miss what's next. Don't be fools. It's still a great adventure.

I still feel sorry for the lemmings who bolt, and my post is an attempt to exercise my writing style and convince you to cool your jets and just watch. You're about to see a fun show INSIDE the activity that will likely match the one we saw on the field last night.

Don't buy the baloney. Your corps need you, the activity needs you, and you know you really want to stay and see the Great Change happen.

Well, stick around...

This is weird, and I have not read all of the other replies, but I agree with you....and disagree withyou.

Yes, manyof us are invested in drum corps, and we want it to succeed.

But, while I personally haven't left, but have slowed down my consumption, I realize that paying customers, if dissatisfied, may not care about "the greater good".

You see, drum corps for paying fans is entertainment, not always just a great cause, educational endeavour etc....they want to go to shows, and be entertained for their hard earned $$$ that they pay.

So, no matter how great the cause, if the fan isn't entertained, they may say "#### it" and stop paying.

See DCI, DCA etc have to ealka fine line.....yes it is a great educational endeavour, all the happy sunshiney stuff. but it's also entertainment.....and if people aren't entertained, shouold you expect them to keep paying to see it, noble cause and all, if they are bored?

if you say yes, then really, you misunderstand the real world.

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"Darkly prophesize"? You must have missed the several times I stated my increased optimism. The future is always dark, and I surely didn't suggest it is.

You misunderstand me: "you must have missed the several times I stated" my hope that your optimistic predictions proved true. When I said you prophesied "darkly", I meant that adverb in the sense of Blue Devils' 2010 show title: your optimistic claims for the future are hard for the rest of us to read. (We see but through a glass darkly.)

I recognize that not all those who green+ JulesBry's post are leaving. But I surely don't understand those who upvote it just because it's "eloquent". To me, content matters even if I'm counted among the grammar police!

I often use the greens for posts that are well expressed, sometimes even when I disagree with them. This is a discussion forum, so I respond to the quality of the discussion and not only its content. (For instance, if two people make the same point, but one is rude and the other polite, I might up-vote the latter, by way of encouraging civility.) That said, I also happen to agree with much of JB's aesthetic concerns, if not the action he is taking in response, and I appreciate him making the case as well as he does.

How is anyone to know? How do you think I know? [...] I don't have special knowledge except to the extent that I've spent an entire career spotting trends. [...] I've spent the time necessary to find out the facts [...] I've stayed involved.

Well, count me taken aback. I read your earlier comments in this thread to mean you did indeed catch wind of actual changes brewing. If you're "merely" reading tea leaves --and I acknowledge that you may be an excellent prognosticator-- I have to wonder even more why those without your special skills would know that now more than ever was the wrong time to abandon the activity! And I'm not sure what kind of "involvement" ought to be required of the average fan (whose career is not based on trend-spotting) in deciding whether or not it's worthwhile to continue spending money on this activity. If JulesBry thinks his summer entertainment budget would be better spent on, say, baseball, or windsurfing, because DCI shows are less enjoyable (for him) than they used to be, what further kinds of research ought he reasonably to be expected to undertake before walking away? Some people on DCP (and many more not here) are "just" fans -- people who love (or used to love) this activity and like to talk with other like-minded enthusiasts.

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Well, count me taken aback. I read your earlier comments in this thread to mean you did indeed catch wind of actual changes brewing.

EDIT: Sorry, I should have asked "How do you think I came to know?"

I did, I do, I'm not making it up, and the information is out there for anyone with the desire to seek it out. It's not mysterious, it's not hidden.

But the idea of "catching wind" makes me oddly uncomfortable. :tongue:

"Fans" are defined differently, I get that. Some are more involved than others, I get that, too. Not everyone gets the same information at the same time - true. But, I would think all but the most casual fans would take the time to investigate - ask questions, talk to people, get facts and opinions - before taking the position to abandon something of which they were called "a fan". Maybe some do but, apparently, many here do not.

As I posted earlier to Grandpa, I don't post pablum here.

Edited by garfield
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The BEST impact one can make in this situation is to find a corps that reflects what that fan expects, then supporting that corps, helping it grow in size, influence, and competitiveness to the point that it can win. One might also make the time to talk with people in a position of power - a BOD member, for example - in order to find one who's viewpoint matches yours, then supporting that person in their attempt to steer the activity in the direction both, ostensibly, want it to go.

You know, this is a great suggestion. In some ways, it's one I've practiced for a long time as best I could. I've had a tradition of buying one or two t-shirts a year. One for the corps that surprised me (in a good way) the most, and one for my favorite corps in general (when I could afford it). As a result, I have quite a collection of t's dating back to Bluecoats '98 (a huge surprise that remains one of my favorite shows of all times) and as recently as Jubal 2011. I don't have a ton of money to give, and just getting to a show is about all I can afford. Most of the t's I bought were in the discount bin (except for a few that I just HAD to have).

If I lived close to a corps I liked, I would volunteer to help, but the closest one to me is a OC corps about 4 hours away. Not exactly the kind of thing you can do for a few hours after work. However, the Cavies' brass director just took the UK Marching Band position. Maybe I'll find a way to bend his ear a bit. :-)

That being said, for those who can give/pay more, I think your suggestion would be excellent. For me, my voice/keyboard is about all I can use with any effectiveness. If I'm alone, I'll be alone and find something else to do. If not, well, hopefully DCI will listen to us before it's too late.

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I recognize that not all those who green+ JulesBry's post are leaving. But I surely don't understand those who upvote it just because it's "eloquent". To me, content matters even if I'm counted among the grammar police!

I'd just like to point out that as far as I'm concerned, up/down votes are meaningless on the thread I started. That's why I added the poll. If people want to make a statement one way or the other, that's the place to make it.

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Cavies 2011--the entire intro was pre-recorded? Really? That's drum corps?

Blue Knights 2011--the entire intro was pre-recorded? Really? That's drum corps?

Crown 2011--a show based around featuring a synthesizer

Glassmen 2012--a show based around featuring a synthesizer

Cavies 2012--a show with significant synth features that could have been played by horn lines (that bass line was even more atrocious because the tubas weren't playing anything at the time)

Cadets 2012--(I think they eventually took it out, but) wrecking a beautiful solo with a horrible synth patch echo

Just to name a few, while leaving out all BD references.

Well, I think you are clearly in the minority than, because most people I have heard from don't have a problem with most of those shows. And is 3 (or 4) out of 22 WC corps really going to drive you away?

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Well, I think you are clearly in the minority than, because most people I have heard from don't have a problem with most of those shows. And is 3 (or 4) out of 22 WC corps really going to drive you away?

Well, to extend his list: Pioneer, Spirit, Bluecoats, Cadets, and Blue Devils all used significant pre-recorded voice during the show. Spirit and also Blue Devils also used pre-recorded music during their shows. Troopers also had some pre-recorded voice at the beginning of their show (may have been pre-show). Blue Stars had pre-recorded or synthesized singing in their show. Blue Knights featured long periods of synth features this year. Music City used extensive pre-recorded music during their show. The majority of the top 12 (and many of the rest) used noticeable levels of bass synth, which bothers plenty of people.

Glassmen and Spirit both played over their brass lines with synth last year, and Troopers used pre-recorded chimes while leaving their own perfectly good chimes sitting there idle.

I think it's unquestionable that deeper and more intrusive synth/sample use is on the rise. Maybe it's being integrated better than it was in 2009 and 2010, but if it bothers a person, it bothers them. JulesBry finds it bothersome enough to not want to go to shows anymore, and has registered his complaints. Why do you feel the need to convince him that his distaste is invalid?

Personally, I can deal with the synth bass and the sound effect here and there, the preshow nonsense and the synthesized mood-setting, even if it makes me cringe. I actually loved Crown's synth feature in 2011, but I attribute that to the fact that (1) piano was my first instrument, and (2) it was real, honest, ###-kicking high-achievement on the field, whereas most synth/sampled elements represent the opposite.

But I do find the trend bothersome enough that if more corps go to the extent that the Cavaliers did this year I would be far less inclined to keep coming back. That show was a total buzzkill for me at Muncie. I hear it's been improved and I'm sure I would enjoy it more now, but I can't even bring myself to watch the VODs over again. Maybe that's a moral failing on my part, but it is what it is.

Kudos again to JulesBry for being brave enough to state his opinion. :thumbup:

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