Grandpa Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I'm going to be blunt: perhaps Blue Devils don't care about please SIMPLISTIC, simple-minded, lowest-common-denominator, Über-broad tasted fans. I guess I must be a real knuckle dragger to you then..... Thanks for the enlightenment - this opinion really makes me love BD now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bchorn Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 They please enough fans to help DCI have higher attendance in 2012 than 2011, help DCI get high attendance at Regional shows, and sell a TON of merchandise. So 2012 increase in attendance has been directly attributed to the Blue Devils? I haven't heard that. Could it be that the higher attendance in 2012 is the result of 2011 having one of the best finals in recent history? The 2011 finals was certainly the reason why I spent $1000 on airfare, lodging, and tickets to my first finals in 20 years this year. Regardless of the turnout of a flawed fan judging (and there's no disputing that there were a TON of great, entertaining shows in 2011: heck, I would've voted BD out of the Top 5 from a sheer "I was more entertained by" vote), there were still plenty of fans who like BD's show. Flawed fan voting? I was at that show in Austin (hence the large airfare to finals) and the Blue Devils were a real dud that night. I tried to give them the benefit of the doubt because they were the first corp to perform but then the Cavaliers came in right after BD and ripped the roof off the house (hence the #1 vote). If the voting was so flawed then why did the fan voting practically mirror the judges placements for all but two of the corps? Did the judges get it wrong to for the other 6 corps as well? They are not hurting for support. I would almost bet money that BD made significantly more in souvie sales in 2012 than fan-favorite Jersey Surf. (but I would LOVE to see who sold more between BD & Crown!) I have no doubt that BD sells more souvenirs because they have been a perennial power in Drum Corp since their inception. But can you explain to me why only 10% of the finals crowd stayed around to hear the encore performance when the yankees of Drum Corp just won their 15th championship? The year before the Cadets had 50% of the crowd remain and they are probably equal in popularity with the Blue Devils. Could it be that simply a lot more people enjoyed the Cadets last year than they enjoyed the Blue Devils this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 That's a good statement in theory, but it's possible to be on a judging panel with someone else who has very similar standards, tastes, ideals, etc. I've judged on panels where I fairly strongly disagreed with a judge, and other panels where I've strongly agreed with a judge. And sometimes if a group is really great (or really bad), there's just no other decision to arrive at, regardless of what the other guys/gals on the panel think. Of course, I hate absolutes, so I would naturally have an aversion to your statement To be fair, the problem is that someone HAS to judge effect in the activity, and the problem is some groups just don't design and/or perform effectively: you still have to right down a number and give the group credit for whatever effect they can muster, even if it is meager/incomplete. similar yes...agree 100% down the line...rare and fishy IMO. and performance aside, GE is very design heavy. The problem is too many corps design for just one third of the triad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) So 2012 increase in attendance has been directly attributed to the Blue Devils? I haven't heard that. Could it be that the higher attendance in 2012 is the result of 2011 having one of the best finals in recent history? The 2011 finals was certainly the reason why I spent $1000 on airfare, lodging, and tickets to my first finals in 20 years this year. Flawed fan voting? I was at that show in Austin (hence the large airfare to finals) and the Blue Devils were a real dud that night. I tried to give them the benefit of the doubt because they were the first corp to perform but then the Cavaliers came in right after BD and ripped the roof off the house (hence the #1 vote). If the voting was so flawed then why did the fan voting practically mirror the judges placements for all but two of the corps? Did the judges get it wrong to for the other 6 corps as well? I have no doubt that BD sells more souvenirs because they have been a perennial power in Drum Corp since their inception. But can you explain to me why only 10% of the finals crowd stayed around to hear the encore performance when the yankees of Drum Corp just won their 15th championship? The year before the Cadets had 50% of the crowd remain and they are probably equal in popularity with the Blue Devils. Could it be that simply a lot more people enjoyed the Cadets last year than they enjoyed the Blue Devils this year? hmmmm i dont remember 50 % staying in 2011..i actually remember people running for the doors . I dont think the encore is what it used to be at any show.....people leave to get on the road, eat, party, with the internet and smart phones you can get scores in your car Edited August 30, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I'm totally with you: as a teacher/designer of a scholastic program I'm all about the educational values. I love pushing my students to achieve things in November they were no where near achieving in August. I honestly enjoy problem solving (cleaning), teaching students new skills & watching them develop into great musicians/performers/human beings. HOWEVER... teaching/designing for drum corps is not just an educational thing. There should, of course, be a fine line between a show that is designed with a degree of difficulty while also being optimally effective and being achievable. If you design something that is challenging but not 100% achievable, you either failed as a designer or as a teacher (and the lesson learned from the members = "if you want to win you have to be clean"). if you read the PR, drum corps is all about educational opportunities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 1) I never called anyone idiots 2) I don't think too many BD supporters are getting too upset about people complaining about their shows (they're too busy celebrating their undefeated Championship season and, FWIW, I REALLY wanted Crown to win And just like the film, or music industry, you're absolutely right: it takes all genres of fans to keep the activity afloat. And in the case of DCI, I think there are PLENTY of entertaining drum corps who design shows for mass-appeal. Just like the film industry didn't fall into a downward spiral when a low-budget, low box office earner won the Best Picture Award (like "Hurt Locker," when it won over the highest grossing movie of all time, "Avatar"). And the music industry to fall apart when whatever horrible band/artist/prefabricated garbage act wins a ton of awards. If you don't like Blue Devil's shows, or find them boring, there are several other corps performing at Finals whom you might find just as entertaining. Of course, this is a different activity than the entertainment business. And while DCI is a competition-driven activity, whomever wins is certainly not the final declaration of what show a person likes the most. But, attendance was up this year, and Regional attendance was also reportedly high. So I guess not too many people are walking? I'm not sure it has enough fans to keep it afloat honestly. it's more than show programming thats an issue for sure ( cough cough Indy), but that's a big concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bchorn Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) hmmmm i dont remember 50 % staying in 2011..i actually remember people running for the doors . I dont think the encore is what it used to be at any show.....people leave to get on the road, eat, party, with the internet and smart phones you can get scores in your car The %'s I'm referring to are Michael Boo's estimations from the Finals Blog for both years. Here's the link to the 2012 blog. 11:30Michael Boo: Unfortunately, perhaps only 10% of the audience is left in the stands to witness it. Michael Reed from yesterday's Semifinals blog concurs with that figure. 11:30Michael Boo: If anyone wants to get a great seat for the run-through, they can pretty much write their own ticket. Here's the link to the 2011 blog. 11:21Michael Boo: I think at least half the audience is staying on to hear the encore. 11:21Michael Boo: That says a lot. The fans sure didn't seem to be in a rush to get to their car last year. I had a 9am flight the next morning but I certainly would have stayed if Crown had won. Edited August 30, 2012 by bchorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) The %'s I'm referring to are Michael Boo's estimations from the Finals Blog for both years. Here's the link to the 2012 blog. 11:30Michael Boo: Unfortunately, perhaps only 10% of the audience is left in the stands to witness it. Michael Reed from yesterday's Semifinals blog concurs with that figure. 11:30Michael Boo: If anyone wants to get a great seat for the run-through, they can pretty much write their own ticket. Here's the link to the 2011 blog. 11:21Michael Boo: I think at least half the audience is staying on to hear the encore. 11:21Michael Boo: That says a lot. The fans sure didn't seem to be in a rush to get to their car last year. I had a 9am flight the next morning but I certainly would have stayed if Crown had won. i think there are few fans into encores anymore....crown or otherwise.....you can see that around the country all summer no matter who was doing it....now of course here you will hear others say the stands were packed...so all I can say is what ive experienced...which is most of the summer on tour as far as last year I was speaking to 2 cadet members ( in the stands )after their performance and there was a decent amount of people watching again but 1/2 full ...no , dont think so Edited August 30, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bchorn Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 i think there are few fans into encores anymore....crown or otherwise.....you can see that around the country all summer no matter who was doing it....now of course here you will hear others say the stands were packed...so all I can say is what ive experienced...which is most of the summer on tour as far as last year I was speaking to 2 cadet members ( in the stands )after their performance and there was a decent amount of people watching again but 1/2 full ...no , dont think so So you are saying that Michael Boo overestimated how many people stayed for the last year's World Championship encore performance but he got it right this year because people just don't watch encores anymore??? Come on...just admit you are in denial that more people liked last year's Cadets show than this year's Blue Devils show. There wasn't nearly the backlash from the Cadets winning last year like there was this year with the Blue Devils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) So you are saying that Michael Boo overestimated how many people stayed for the last year's World Championship encore performance but he got it right this year because people just don't watch encores anymore??? Come on...just admit you are in denial that more people liked last year's Cadets show than this year's Blue Devils show. There wasn't nearly the backlash from the Cadets winning last year like there was this year with the Blue Devils. im not saying anything,,,,,and encores dont mean the mass liked or disliked anything......theres lotw of reasons why people stay or dont stay..maybe the bad storms last year..maybe the show...maybe the airport runs...who cares but i dont think it means anything....but to also use lack of people at an encore or a larger amount doesnt dimininsh a corps or make them better either...its only an encore and as far as last year , of course people liked Cadets , it was easy to view and appealed to many.........there were also many many who loved BD last year and this year...yeah yeah I know we all know the majority who liked or didnt like something..lol what I am saying is I dont think an encore indicates anything...I was also there last year and this and I know I was with alot of cadet alumni during the encore and most were just socializing on the walkways but I can say the same this year , a few hootin and hollerin and most socializing Edited August 30, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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