BRASSO Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) The kids I taught decades ago arent the same at all I wish I had a buck from every veteran school teacher that has told me otherwise. Things change. Whats available to kids.. and becomes unavailable to kids... change. This much is true. But the kids themselves ? They don't change from era to era. Not fundamentally. Their most fundamental needs don't change at all. Only the things around them change. At its most basic levels, the kids who march Drum Corps today arn't really that different from earlier eras. They might, on the collective whole, be a bit more affluent, and certainly on the whole, collectively as a group more musically talented. But what motivates kids and what they are all about has not really fundamentally changed at all over the years in my view. Their instruments and uniforms look different. But the kids behind these instruments, don't look any different or act any differently to me. Not really. Edited August 31, 2012 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I wish I had a buck from every veteran school teacher that has told me otherwise. Things change. Whats available to kids.. and becomes unavailable to kids... change. This much is true. But the kids themselves ? They don't change. Not fundamentally. Their most fundamental needs don't change at all. guess we will disagree....the kid of decades ago was alot easier to teach with alot less distractions....im very much involved with educators from coast to coast..mostly north east areas and california and have told me otherwise also....so guess it just depends who you talk to as well as what they do...remember in a school situation a kid is captive in drum corps they arent..kids are way more demanding...so if you disagree all I can say is ok....teaching 2 DCI corps and a DCA corps( I include them because DCA has gotten very young ) design for 3 winter programs..judged as well as on the board of a few judging and winter associations,this has been my experience. Im sure there are others who have had different experiences than my ouwn though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 LOL Paul put down the wine brotha. Guilty as charged...Ironman is done for this year (12:18 finish btw) and I'm on a 2-3 semi-bender until I start right back at it. Though a lot more yoga this winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Whoa yea! Aristocrats live at biscuits and blues February 1st 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bchorn Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 thats where you got it wrong..ive almost never been a BD fan even BITD...im just telling it as I see it...and Ive been on tour all summer at regionals as well as PO DUNK america...there are also many more than a few BD suporters , they may not indulge in the DCP scene but they are there a well as many young new fans. Was it a widley popular show? no....does it matter that EVERYONE didnt like it NOPE....that can also be said of every single corps out there......now I guess you'll tell be the %s and averages...dont bother its not all that important Guardling, The World Championship show of 2012 was NOT a wildly popular show. This is the point I've been trying to make this entire time on this thread. I never said that NO ONE liked the World Championship show of 2012. Of course, there are people who liked the World Championship show of 2012 above all others. My concern is that I feel that DCI will suffer if it continues to award a World Championship to a show that is not wildly popular. My point in bringing up the fan vote from DCI Austin last year was to point that the judges like the Blue Devils more than the fans. I'm not saying that no one likes the Blue Devils. I'm just saying that the Blue Devils have a recent history of being more popular with the judges than with the fans. Again, I'm not saying that the Blue Devils are not popular. My concern is that other corps are going to start "playing to the sheets" like the Blue Devils and not care about making wildly popular shows because that's the winning formula the Blue Devils have used the last 6 years to place in the top 2. If 2013 turns out to have more shows like the Blue Devils than Carolina Crown, then I may just give up on drum corp as a whole after 25 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I wish I had a buck from every veteran school teacher that has told me otherwise. Things change. Whats available to kids.. and becomes unavailable to kids... change. This much is true. But the kids themselves ? They don't change from era to era. Not fundamentally. Their most fundamental needs don't change at all. Only the things around them change. At its most basic levels, the kids who march Drum Corps today arn't really that different from earlier eras. They might, on the collective whole, be a bit more affluent, and certainly on the whole, collectively as a group more musically talented. But what motivates kids and what they are all about has not really fundamentally changed at all over the years in my view. Their instruments and uniforms look different. But the kids behind these instruments, don't look any different or act any differently to me. Not really. "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." Quote attributed to Socrates by Plato. Elders have always complained about the younger generation. It may well form part of the dialogue in old vs. new styles of drum corps. But I don't believe this generation is fundamentally lazier, more easily distracted, etc etc. It's true that they have more distractions available, but many of those were thrown at them by adults wearing suits wondering how to make more money for their corporations. At various times I've been teaching drum corps, karate and even medieval sword and shield combat to kids, teens and young adults since the 1980's. My observation is that kids are not fundamentally different, but the society in which they find themselves has changed, and as always, they struggle to understand it. I do believe that the adults have become a little lazy in their efforts to find new ways to connect with those kids. Just my 2 cents on that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." Quote attributed to Socrates by Plato. Elders have always complained about the younger generation. It may well form part of the dialogue in old vs. new styles of drum corps. But I don't believe this generation is fundamentally lazier, more easily distracted, etc etc. It's true that they have more distractions available, but many of those were thrown at them by adults wearing suits wondering how to make more money for their corporations. At various times I've been teaching drum corps, karate and even medieval sword and shield combat to kids, teens and young adults since the 1980's. My observation is that kids are not fundamentally different, but the society in which they find themselves has changed, and as always, they struggle to understand it. I do believe that the adults have become a little lazy in their efforts to find new ways to connect with those kids. Just my 2 cents on that. Maybe Plato, if he was alive, could explain to me who has complained at all on this thread about "the young". Could you do me a favor ? Could you repeat for me what the OP's thread is about ? In your view, is the OP starting off this thread complaining about " the young" ? Or is the OP " the young" complaining on the thread title and initial remarks about " the Dinos " ? I want to be sure here that I've not unknowingly entered tonite into some parallel universe where upside down is rightside up. Just let me know what you derive from the OP thread title, and who the complaining letter is directed too.... the " Dino ", or " the Young ". And who the OP thinks needs to " connect and understand things better "...the Young.. or " the Dino " ( " Dino" a perjorative descriptive word one would assume in his remarks, as he did not use the more respectful term " Legacy Fans" or some such starting right out of the gate ). Thanks. Edited September 1, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Maybe Plato, if he was alive, could explain to me who has complained at all on this thread about "the young". Could you do me a favor ? Could you repeat for me what the OP's thread is about ? In your view, is he starting off this thread complaining about " the young" ? Or is the OP " the young" complaining on the thread title and initial remarks about " the Dinos " ? I want to be sure here that I've not unknowingly entered tonite into some parallel universe where upside down is rightside up. Just let me know what you derive from the OP thread title, and who the complaining letter is directed too.... the " Dino ", or " the Young ". And who the OP thinks needs to " connect and understand things better ". The Young.. or " The Dino " ( a perjorative word one would assume in his remarks, as he did not use the more respectful term " Legacy Fans" or some such starting right out of the gate ). Thanks. If you note the post (yours) that I was responding to, I was supporting your view that kids today aren't that different from back in the day. If I didn't make it clear from by added comments, I thought Socrates was full of #### on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) If you note the post (yours) that I was responding to, I was supporting your view that kids today aren't that different from back in the day. If I didn't make it clear from by added comments, I thought Socrates was full of #### on this one. I reread it again, and it was more clear to me on the reread that you support the position that fundamentally the kids havn't changed. Thanks for being patient and giving me another bite at the apple on understanding your position. I liked Socrates, but I'm not gonna drink any hemlock over these Drum Corps changes thats for sure. Edited September 1, 2012 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Guardling, The World Championship show of 2012 was NOT a wildly popular show. This is the point I've been trying to make this entire time on this thread. I never said that NO ONE liked the World Championship show of 2012. Of course, there are people who liked the World Championship show of 2012 above all others. My concern is that I feel that DCI will suffer if it continues to award a World Championship to a show that is not wildly popular. My point in bringing up the fan vote from DCI Austin last year was to point that the judges like the Blue Devils more than the fans. I'm not saying that no one likes the Blue Devils. I'm just saying that the Blue Devils have a recent history of being more popular with the judges than with the fans. Again, I'm not saying that the Blue Devils are not popular. My concern is that other corps are going to start "playing to the sheets" like the Blue Devils and not care about making wildly popular shows because that's the winning formula the Blue Devils have used the last 6 years to place in the top 2. If 2013 turns out to have more shows like the Blue Devils than Carolina Crown, then I may just give up on drum corp as a whole after 25 years. I totally understand what you are saying and thats fine BUT also top corps have always played to the sheets. I sit on the staff of 2 finalist' as well as a DCA corp and sheets always come up come up in initial meetings. Now Im not say so called entertainment doesnt come up. What some arm chair judging does have is no restrictions of NOT having a show style opinion....a Judge ( and yes I have been one ) does not judge the type of show or try to re write a show , a judge judges what a corps decided to do and have they achieved it in excellence as well as conveying their message, not if they liked it or not . Look at another widely popular corps this year and how style and theme wise they changed alot from 2011, worked the sheets as well as maybe followed cadets style a bit because maybe it worked for them...JMO as hard as it may be to believe BITD i was on staff and a very young staff member learning and was with a very controversial corps which entertainment and the audience was top concern SHEETS, even back then were talked about and how those things needed to be counted in beacuse although we were in it to entertain we were also in it to be successful and were ! Edited September 1, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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