MikeN Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 yeah so lets encourage BAD teaching all the more. Could you give us an example or two of this bad teaching? no... I just parachuted into this thread, but I have to say that cracked me up. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 BD's victory solidifies the recent trend of winning show concepts (since 2007). It's either about Art, History, or War. Got to have one of these to win. BD had all 3 this year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Fair enough. I'm not trying to argue for keeping fans in the dark. All I'm saying is I doubt the tapes will help anyone decode the secret message. One reason why is your last point. From what I've heard, they don't really illuminate anything significant about the scoring. We haven't discussed it, but one reason why they don't tell much of the scoring story is each tape is specific to one corps while the scores proper are references to each other. I suppose if you were able to listen to all the tapes you might have more insight into the relative scoring. That still would be an exercise in reading between the lines (between the tapes ... err digital files?). Again, lots of interpolation required. Not sure there's all that much clarity here. HH In terms of improving the value of the judges tapes, perhaps they could be required to at least compare this corps with the previous corps that went on (after the first corps, of course) in each bullet-point area. But anyway, without hearing them it's hard to judge them (pun not really intended). As far as the fan value, maybe it's just the entertainment value of demystifying the judging. One solution would be to release a 15 minute or so judges tape compilation video on fan network, consisting of a collection of the most memorable moments of the various corps' musical and visual repertoire, along with a relevant judges actual comments in real time (positive comments only). That would be awesome, and it's hard to imagine anyone would object. And fairly easy to produce, since it's the existing video and audio, overlaid with the judges audio. Not trivial, especially the selection part, but whoever did it would be having fun, so I would think it's doable at a very low cost to DCI, and would be a selling point of fan network. They could produce them for years past, of course. I LOVE the commentary idea people have talked about too. This is why DCI should have a "commercial rights holder" like formula 1 has. All this stuff would happen, and more that we haven't thought of. Once somebody has to make back the money they paid DCI for the rights, things would happen. A committee based system like DCI can't really do marketing effectively. But that's the topic of another thread. Or many other threads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 yeah so lets encourage BAD teaching all the more..thank goodness wgi HAS MADE IT A POINT TO STRESS TRAINING not ENCOURAGING the lack the training for the coolness..New instructors as you said will do it either way but NEVER encourage it...thats a very bad message...no wonder theres ( like you said ) so much out there...the ones who get it will be successful..Ive seen it over and over and OVER again and got ALOT to back it up....................you know what ..Ive seen the light.....theres alot of very bad judging IF what YOU say is true and its encouraged...maybe judgeing all the way around needs a HUGE over haul........from the bottom up across the board....IF corps want to have staff commentary thats cool for others teaching could learn from I guess or even if they allow their judging tapes...as long as its what THEY want..MAN ! DCP is more exhausting than any tour...... THEY DO IT REGARDLESS OF ACCESS TO TAPES OR NOT!!! WHAT IS SO ###### HARD ABOUT THAT FOR YOU TO GET? Long before you had the interwebs, lower level corps copied big name corps. Now with the interwebs they do it. so putting a tape up or the ability to put a tape up hasn;t changed a ###### thing. I see far too many WGI lines trying to do what Pulse, RCC, Music City, X etc do badly...and there's few if any WGI tapes floating around. So what's their excuse...err your excuse? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Fair enough. I'm not trying to argue for keeping fans in the dark. All I'm saying is I doubt the tapes will help anyone decode the secret message. One reason why is your last point. From what I've heard, they don't really illuminate anything significant about the scoring. We haven't discussed it, but one reason why they don't tell much of the scoring story is each tape is specific to one corps while the scores proper are references to each other. I suppose if you were able to listen to all the tapes you might have more insight into the relative scoring. That still would be an exercise in reading between the lines (between the tapes ... err digital files?). Again, lots of interpolation required. Not sure there's all that much clarity here. HH if...and that could be a big if...the judges follow the criteria on the sheets, which are public, it could help open some eyes Edited September 12, 2012 by Jeff Ream 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 BD's victory solidifies the recent trend of winning show concepts (since 2007). It's either about Art, History, or War. Got to have one of these to win. BD had all 3 this year! Plan9 earlier said that "a monster trumps the sheets every time", meaning a GE monster. I though, hmm, not always with BD. It almost seems that every corps that beats BD does so with a GE monster. But some of BD's winning shows don't necessarily blow people away in GE. Their strategy is almost more basic somehow. (Granted, this years show is very GE heavy.) I realize we haven't defined a GE monster, but we know it when we see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Plan9 earlier said that "a monster trumps the sheets every time", meaning a GE monster. I though, hmm, not always with BD. It almost seems that every corps that beats BD does so with a GE monster. But some of BD's winning shows don't necessarily blow people away in GE. Their strategy is almost more basic somehow. (Granted, this years show is very GE heavy.) I realize we haven't defined a GE monster, but we know it when we see it. Cadets 11, Phantom 08....there's your GE monsters 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Cadets 11, Phantom 08....there's your GE monsters They were GE monsters but they in no way trumped the sheets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Audio tapes of BD were my first intro into DCI level drum corps. I was in a fine smallish standstill corps (the Lake Regionaires of Monroe, NY), and the horn instructor basically snuck a bunch of us out to the parking lot to listen on his dashboard tape deck. BD blew us away. We didn't realize drum corps could be that good. I was hooked. My point is, I still think tapes of BD are on average the best drum corps audio tapes you can listen to. They often has that Doc Severinsen feel of high impact jazz that's accessible to anyone. That's why I feel the issues people have are primarily with the drill. If the audience were to close their eyes, and judge how crowd-pleasing they are that way, BD might be the crowd favorite most years. Surprise, surprise. Why do I feel the drill is compromised? (Finally getting back to you, Plan9) The forms are beautiful; it's not that. It's just that they seem to be a bit slower on average, and seem to do fewer big sweeping vistas, perhaps to avoid execution problems. I mean, to take an extreme example: if you have a horn line composed of the first chairs in brass of the worlds finest symphony orchestras, my guess is you will want to showcase that. And you will discover that if you try to get them to move as fast as other corps, the sound will suffer way more than you want. So, you slow it down, break it up into smaller bits, and make the most of your outstanding musicians. That's what I would do. But, since humans are 90% visual (allegedly), the crowd just doesn't appreciate it as much, on average? It's just a theory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Ok, so today I've been watching fan network on the hdtv with the home theater audio setup. Wow! I watched BD Through A Glass Darkly, and amazing though this show was, I did detect a fair amount of fractured drill moves in which the corps isn't presenting one cohesive picture, but several smaller ones. Even so, there seemed to be more eye candy in the drill than usual for them, and combined with the other incredible visuals they seemed to get a great audience response. So I still put the anti-BD bias down to fewer big forms than other corps, the money jealousy, and regional jealousy. One thing is also clear; they are definitely trying to please the crowd. The idea that they are mechanically hitting the captions in a pure attempt to win seems ridiculous. They love the crowd and want the crowd to love them too. Anyone know why the pressbox ("iso") angle isn't available on fan network before 2011? Or am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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