Plan9 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Audio tapes of BD were my first intro into DCI level drum corps. I was in a fine smallish standstill corps (the Lake Regionaires of Monroe, NY), and the horn instructor basically snuck a bunch of us out to the parking lot to listen on his dashboard tape deck. BD blew us away. We didn't realize drum corps could be that good. I was hooked. My point is, I still think tapes of BD are on average the best drum corps audio tapes you can listen to. They often has that Doc Severinsen feel of high impact jazz that's accessible to anyone. That's why I feel the issues people have are primarily with the drill. If the audience were to close their eyes, and judge how crowd-pleasing they are that way, BD might be the crowd favorite most years. Surprise, surprise. Why do I feel the drill is compromised? (Finally getting back to you, Plan9) The forms are beautiful; it's not that. It's just that they seem to be a bit slower on average, and seem to do fewer big sweeping vistas, perhaps to avoid execution problems. I mean, to take an extreme example: if you have a horn line composed of the first chairs in brass of the worlds finest symphony orchestras, my guess is you will want to showcase that. And you will discover that if you try to get them to move as fast as other corps, the sound will suffer way more than you want. So, you slow it down, break it up into smaller bits, and make the most of your outstanding musicians. That's what I would do. But, since humans are 90% visual (allegedly), the crowd just doesn't appreciate it as much, on average? It's just a theory. IMO, BD designers always consider (have in mind) big movement, fast BPM and the score.....but it doesn't drive the design.....the design drives all of those things. In your last post you mention BD 2010 and how it appears in HD as fractured and comprised of smaller components. That's exactly right! It is meant to be fractured, serving up multiple small vignettes occurring all across the field simultaneously. Mini plays, mini moments, all orchestrated and meaning something individually. And....if you know some of BD's classic pieces, you'll recognize a "bent" version of them and a hint of another. It's BD's past pulled through a worm hole. It's all there, some obvious "La Suerta", some less obvious "Channel One" and "Legend...", all disturbingly fractured; and for the real BD aficionado, MM's tell me there are reflective drill movements of the past sprinkled around as well. To me, one of the most beautiful moments comes in the Laura resolve in the middle and again in the reprise in the last moments of the closer....chilling! But Simple Gifts and company front it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 But Simple Gifts and company front it is not. Hey now, none of that. Some of us quite enjoy those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 IMO, BD designers always consider (have in mind) big movement, fast BPM and the score.....but it doesn't drive the design.....the design drives all of those things. In your last post you mention BD 2010 and how it appears in HD as fractured and comprised of smaller components. That's exactly right! It is meant to be fractured, serving up multiple small vignettes occurring all across the field simultaneously. Mini plays, mini moments, all orchestrated and meaning something individually. And....if you know some of BD's classic pieces, you'll recognize a "bent" version of them and a hint of another. It's BD's past pulled through a worm hole. It's all there, some obvious "La Suerta", some less obvious "Channel One" and "Legend...", all disturbingly fractured; and for the real BD aficionado, MM's tell me there are reflective drill movements of the past sprinkled around as well. To me, one of the most beautiful moments comes in the Laura resolve in the middle and again in the reprise in the last moments of the closer....chilling! But Simple Gifts and company front it is not. To your larger point though, the BD design team is nothing but very deliberate with their ideas. They know what they're presenting, and that they can design a show to present any kind of picture, or evoke any kind of reaction, and they know that. They chose the Cabaret Voltaire show, and imagined it as organized chaos, which they pulled off. That was the whole point behind it. The "mini-moments" as you're calling it for Through a Glass Darkly are supposed to be just that. Looking at the past through a broken mirror, just seeing fragments of what was there. To say they're blunt with their visual designs and representations isn't exactly the best term, but it's also accurate. When they design a show, they present the picture exactly as it is. They gave the field organized chaos this year, they did broken mirror forms in 2010, they showed the collapse of the stock market in 2009, with the dollar sign forms, and the gold accents. In 2008 they had tight-rope walkers and circus performers, in 2007 they put wings on the guard. There is nothing overtly subtle about the way the BD team designs a show. Is it for everyone? No, I'm still a fan of big, flowing, melodic drill moves, but that's just my gig. But BD's design team is really the best in the business at taking a concept or theme, and very explicitly putting it out on the field. So yes, I agree with you fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Hey now, none of that. Some of us quite enjoy those things. Bone, you know I've said that I (along with many thousands of fans), involuntarily leaped to our feet with SCV 09.....amazing moment! Edited September 13, 2012 by Plan9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Bone, you know I've said that I (along with many thousands of fans), involuntarily leaped to our feet with SCV 09.....amazing moment! I know. I was just giving you a hard time. My favorite show that I did, and it was good knowing the audience loved us, even if we didn't beat the Cavaliers that year..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Hey now, none of that. Some of us quite enjoy those things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 IMO, BD designers always consider (have in mind) big movement, fast BPM and the score.....but it doesn't drive the design.....the design drives all of those things. In your last post you mention BD 2010 and how it appears in HD as fractured and comprised of smaller components. That's exactly right! It is meant to be fractured, serving up multiple small vignettes occurring all across the field simultaneously. Mini plays, mini moments, all orchestrated and meaning something individually. And....if you know some of BD's classic pieces, you'll recognize a "bent" version of them and a hint of another. It's BD's past pulled through a worm hole. It's all there, some obvious "La Suerta", some less obvious "Channel One" and "Legend...", all disturbingly fractured; and for the real BD aficionado, MM's tell me there are reflective drill movements of the past sprinkled around as well. To me, one of the most beautiful moments comes in the Laura resolve in the middle and again in the reprise in the last moments of the closer....chilling! But Simple Gifts and company front it is not. I absolutely agree there are brilliant moments in BD's drill. I didn't realize there were so many callbacks to previous years as fsubone mentions. But... your mention of "Mini plays, mini moments, all orchestrated and meaning something individually" is what I'm talking about. It isn't just a BD thing; every corps does it more or less (of course you have to break up sometimes just to get the right people into position for the next big visual). My point is that BD historically likes to dwell in those separate mini moments - someone called it "multiple visual focus" earlier I think - more than most corps do. And, since people can only really watch one thing at a time, they don't get the emotional hit from it that they get from a more unified visual. The crowd (humans who are mostly visual) loves BD in those moments when they make a cohesive form, and seem to respond as one would expect. But not when they break up into smaller (and yes - easier to perform) bits. The smaller the unit, the easier it is to hold it together. I think this is the real reason they do it. They make the most of if artistically, but the reason is practical. Granted, if it weren't a common (universal) technique in drum corps, then the first corps to do it would be hailed as innovative. I suppose the director of the first film or tv show to break up the screen into separate mini-screens each with a different scene was hailed as innovative too. But you don't see it much. Why? If every show had it in every episode it would not be considered exciting anymore. My experience (FWIW) is that while a corps is in this 9-ring circus state, the audience just sits there waiting for the next big moment. Am I wrong? How often to people sit up and cheer during that part of a corps' show? Almost never (the last part of Carpe Noctem comes to mind, but it's rare). I think they do it because they want to spin their wheels for a while and for whatever reason they know it won't cost them much on the GE sheets as long as it seems sufficiently clever. If Michael Cesario et al, decide to 'adjust' the sheets even more to increase the benefit to holding together larger patterns throughout the show, BD would adapt (as people keep saying they would) and then don't be surprised if the crowd starts to appreciate BD a bunch more more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairSCV Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I likely am off topic. The judging system should get away from the ratatattats and the boobopedoos and start judging the program. I believe that if all that was done, the finest corps would win. IMO the most rewarded program in GE would win. An inferior performed program would not win because the ratatattats and boobopedoos would be taken into account on the GE sheets. It is impossible for judges in various captions to adjudicate perfect from perfect. It is stupid to even try. The Blue Devils had the finest conceived and performed show this season. However I wonder what the result would have been if some other corps would have used the term Dada.? Just something to jiggle y'all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I likely am off topic. The judging system should get away from the ratatattats and the boobopedoos and start judging the program. I believe that if all that was done, the finest corps would win. IMO the most rewarded program in GE would win. An inferior performed program would not win because the ratatattats and boobopedoos would be taken into account on the GE sheets. It is impossible for judges in various captions to adjudicate perfect from perfect. It is stupid to even try. The Blue Devils had the finest conceived and performed show this season. However I wonder what the result would have been if some other corps would have used the term Dada.? Just something to jiggle y'all. Sorry to sound dumb, but I have two questions. The first is: What are the ratatattats? I think you can guess my second question. That's BD's problem; Too many boobopedoos and not enough ratatattats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I likely am off topic. The judging system should get away from the ratatattats and the boobopedoos and start judging the program. I believe that if all that was done, the finest corps would win. IMO the most rewarded program in GE would win. An inferior performed program would not win because the ratatattats and boobopedoos would be taken into account on the GE sheets. It is impossible for judges in various captions to adjudicate perfect from perfect. It is stupid to even try. The Blue Devils had the finest conceived and performed show this season. However I wonder what the result would have been if some other corps would have used the term Dada.? Just something to jiggle y'all. I think Dada, like Yowza, would have been mocked regardless of who did it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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