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What was the best winning brassline of the last 25 years?


  

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  1. 1. What was the overall best winning brassline of the last 25 years?

    • 2012 Carolina Crown
    • 2011 Carolina Crown
    • 2010 Blue Devils
    • 2009 Carolina Crown
    • 2008 Blue Devils
    • 2007 Blue Devils
    • 2006 Cavaliers
    • 2005 Cadets
    • 2004 Blue Devils
    • 2003 Blue Devils
      0
    • 2002 Cavaliers
    • 2001 Blue Devils
    • 2000 Cadets
    • 1999 Blue Devils
    • 1998 Blue Devils
      0
    • 1997 Blue Devils
    • 1996 Phantom Regiment
    • 1995 Blue Devils
      0
    • 1994 Blue Devils
    • 1993 Blue Devils
    • 1992 Star of Indiana
    • 1991 Star of Indiana
    • 1990 Star of Indiana
    • 1989 Phantom Regiment
    • 1988 Madison Scouts
  2. 2. What was the loudest winning brassline of the last 25 years?

    • 2012 Carolina Crown
    • 2011 Carolina Crown
    • 2010 Blue Devils
    • 2009 Carolina Crown
    • 2008 Blue Devils
    • 2007 Blue Devils
    • 2006 Cavaliers
    • 2005 Cadets
    • 2004 Blue Devils
    • 2003 Blue Devils
    • 2002 Cavaliers
      0
    • 2001 Blue Devils
    • 2000 Cadets
    • 1999 Blue Devils
    • 1998 Blue Devils
      0
    • 1997 Blue Devils
    • 1996 Phantom Regiment
    • 1995 Blue Devils
    • 1994 Blue Devils
    • 1993 Blue Devils
    • 1992 Star of Indiana
    • 1991 Star of Indiana
    • 1990 Star of Indiana
    • 1989 Phantom Regiment
    • 1988 Madison Scouts


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Michael, this is not true. 1995 was announced as a three way tie and Blue Devils also won brass in 1991. There was no tie in 1987.

Do you have a source or are you going from your memory?

Given the lack of clarity surrounding the winner of this year's Visual Performance award, and the lack of any historical listing of scores or winners on dci.org, I don't really trust any historic data anymore.

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Michael, this is not true. 1995 was announced as a three way tie and Blue Devils also won brass in 1991. There was no tie in 1987.

Geoffrey

I show...

1987

19.7 Cadets (9.8 Field + 9.9 Ensemble)

19.7 Vanguard (9.9 Field + 9.8 Ensemble)

1991

19.6 Star of Indiana (9.8 Field + 9.8 Ensemble)

19.6 Blue Devils (9.7 Field + 9.9 Ensemble)

So unless DCI implemented a tie-breaker that Field Brass took precedence, there should have been a tie both years.

1995

9.7 Blue Devils

9.6 Madison Scouts

9.6 Cadets

9.5 Cavaliers

No tie for 1st in brass, but a tie for second.

I also show a tie on the Finals sheet for 1993

19.6 Star of Indiana (9.7 Field + 9.9 Ensemble)

19.6 Blue Devils (9.8 Field + 9.8 Ensemble)

These are straight from the Finals recaps. Perhaps Michael knows more detail on tiebreakers in place at the time, but I'm reporting the numbers.

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I show...

1987

19.7 Cadets (9.8 Field + 9.9 Ensemble)

19.7 Vanguard (9.9 Field + 9.8 Ensemble)

1991

19.6 Star of Indiana (9.8 Field + 9.8 Ensemble)

19.6 Blue Devils (9.7 Field + 9.9 Ensemble)

So unless DCI implemented a tie-breaker that Field Brass took precedence, there should have been a tie both years.

1995

9.7 Blue Devils

9.6 Madison Scouts

9.6 Cadets

9.5 Cavaliers

No tie for 1st in brass, but a tie for second.

I also show a tie on the Finals sheet for 1993

19.6 Star of Indiana (9.7 Field + 9.9 Ensemble)

19.6 Blue Devils (9.8 Field + 9.8 Ensemble)

These are straight from the Finals recaps. Perhaps Michael knows more detail on tiebreakers in place at the time, but I'm reporting the numbers.

Again, in 87, there was no tie, there was different criteria for finals week and the brass award, same thing in 91 where BD/Star tied.....in 1995 the brass title was awarded to three corps, it wasnt based on one day I made that mistake and was corrected by many here on DCP a few years ago.

in 1988 Blue Devils won brass all by themselves, Scouts werent even second.

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I put best as 2012 Crown, though I never heard them live. There were moments in the show where it didn't shine as much (reminding me of 2010 Crown) but they played pretty #### well.

As for loudest, I put 2009 Crown, because I have hearing loss from watching their encores. Not kidding a little bit. Watched them three nights in a row, first in the middle, then on the high brass side, then on the low brass side. worthy.gif

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Do you have a source or are you going from your memory?

Given the lack of clarity surrounding the winner of this year's Visual Performance award, and the lack of any historical listing of scores or winners on dci.org, I don't really trust any historic data anymore.

Im going from being there when these things were announced, the writings I wrote in my yearbooks and programs, the discussions from years past...

I love how everytime I post I get a negative red mark, how silly ! It aint going to change the fact that what I have written is correct.....

Geoffrey

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Now i never heard G horns in person but werent they louder than Bb horns?

They had a different tonality to them (darker and raw) and overtone series.

I wouldn't go so far as to open that can of worms. I'm beginning to buy into the "it's" how they were played argument...

I will say that it's easier to put more air through a G horn than a Bb horn. The rest is up to the individual to decide. tongue.gifthumbup.gif

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I regularly hear on the Legacy CDs and DVDs shrill tone, poor ensemble blend, and constant overblowing, even from the Championship horn lines. And yeah, you can blame some of it on the comparably primitive recording technology of the time, but not all.

You can hear that every year. I know what you're talking about, and a lot of those issues ARE mic placements, et cetera... Some of it is the "screw it, play loud" mentality too. You're correct, that was more prevalent back in the day.

To imply that tone quality was not an important thing in the past would not be very accurate either from my experience. You can hear Jim Prime discuss tone quality to Star contras back in 1992 on video.

Downey lines redefined what was expected from good G lines in the late 70s.

I think our "ears" (what we perceive as good) has changed though...

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I show...

1987

19.7 Cadets (9.8 Field + 9.9 Ensemble)

19.7 Vanguard (9.9 Field + 9.8 Ensemble)

1991

19.6 Star of Indiana (9.8 Field + 9.8 Ensemble)

19.6 Blue Devils (9.7 Field + 9.9 Ensemble)

So unless DCI implemented a tie-breaker that Field Brass took precedence, there should have been a tie both years.

1995

9.7 Blue Devils

9.6 Madison Scouts

9.6 Cadets

9.5 Cavaliers

No tie for 1st in brass, but a tie for second.

I also show a tie on the Finals sheet for 1993

19.6 Star of Indiana (9.7 Field + 9.9 Ensemble)

19.6 Blue Devils (9.8 Field + 9.8 Ensemble)

These are straight from the Finals recaps. Perhaps Michael knows more detail on tiebreakers in place at the time, but I'm reporting the numbers.

You have what I have.

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Again, in 87, there was no tie, there was different criteria for finals week and the brass award, same thing in 91 where BD/Star tied...

People are probably red-tagging you because you keep insisting you're right but backing it up with absolutely nothing of substance. "There was different criteria for finals week and the brass award." Okay, fine. What was that criteria? That's all we need to know. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, all I'm saying is that the Finals caption breakdown shows a brass tie for both 1987 and 1991. So if the Finals caption sheet was not the determining force in the caption awards, what was?

..in 1995 the brass title was awarded to three corps, it wasnt based on one day I made that mistake and was corrected by many here on DCP a few years ago.

In 1995, then, the award must have been a cumulative of all three shows (QF + SF + Finals)...

28.7 Madison Scouts (9.5 + 9.6 + 9.6)

28.7 The Cadets (9.4 + 9.7 + 9.6)

28.7 Blue Devils (9.4 + 9.6 + 9.7)

So that solves/explains that year...

in 1988 Blue Devils won brass all by themselves, Scouts werent even second.

That looks to be the case...

14.7 Blue Devils

14.6 Cadets

14.3 Madison Scouts

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More on 1991... I see no way there WASN'T a tie, unless they used some really funky requirements (again, QF + SF + Finals score format)...

58.7 Star of Indiana (19.4 + 19.7 + 19.6)

58.7 Blue Devils (19.6 + 19.5 + 19.6)

So not only did Star and BD tie at Finals in Brass, their combined score across three shows was also a tie.

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