Popular Post craiga Posted August 25, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Well, I've gotta jump in here. I am not a "kid" (btw, very dismissive and condescending comment, Stu..), and I do not know Burgerbob or Motor City, however: As an Assistant Marching Band Director (for over 30 years), I AGREE with these two posters. No, no one is suggesting that DCI kids should come home and dismiss or belittle their fellow band members or staff. The point needs to be made, however, that from the time when DCI corps begin their year (usually Nov/Dec) until move-in, most corps than I am aware of go OUT OF THEIR WAY to accomodate high school and college students. You can't come to the Dec camp due to your Holiday Concerts? No problem. Can't make Jan camp because of Allstate auditions? No worries. Can't get to the Feb camp due to the Berklee Jazz Festival? It's all good. Can't get to move-in until two weeks in due to graduation/ finals, etc? We'll work with you. Once the corps is on tour, those 10 weeks SHOULD find drum corps being the priority. If a band director is so short-sighted as to not recognize the fact that these kids bring with them an immense package of talent, drive, teamwork, rehearsal etiquette, etc, then he or she is guilty of band director malpractice. The few band directors whom I have known to frown upon DCI involvement are the least secure, and for good reason. The really good band directors ENCOURAGE their students to play all summer, be that music camp, string camp, jazz camp, or drum corps. To quote Maynard Ferguson, "There's no such thing as bad bands...just bad band directors." Edited August 25, 2012 by craiga 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Yes, he had a scholarship. I understand, I have them too. But what is to be gained by having a kid miss weeks of tour by going to a camp? Yes! I get it! He has a contract, unless he wants to lose his money he needs to do what they say. But if he's good enough to be in the Cavaliers' tenor line then the point is most likely moot. Burger... It has zero to do with this one person and his skills, which of course would have been at a very high level having marched Cavies. As I said in a slightly different context it is about he organization (in this case the university) having a policy that everyone must adhere to. What would happen if another person with a scholarship decided to skip camp due to a desire to take a class in the summer? Or if a person's parents decided to take the student overseas to visit relatives? Or.... My guess is they have decided that a hard and fast policy works best for them in managing the overall program. Another set of directors might think otherwise...as in the case of your school. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLD Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Well, I've gotta jump in here. I am not a "kid" (btw, very dismissive and condescending comment, Stu..), and I do not know Burgerbob or Motor City, however: As an Assistant Marching Band Director (for over 30 years), I AGREE with these two posters. No, no one is suggesting that DCI kids should come home and dismiss or belittle their fellow band members or staff. The point needs to be made, however, that from the time when DCI corps begin their year (usually Nov/Dec) until move-in, most corps than I am aware of go OUT OF THEIR WAY to accomodate high school and college students. You can't come to the Dec camp due to your Holiday Concerts? No problem. Can't make Jan camp because of Allstate auditions? No worries. Can't get to the Feb camp due to the Berklee Jazz Festival? It's all good. Can't get to move-in until two weeks in due to graduation/ finals, etc? We'll work with you. Once the corps is on tour, those 10 weeks SHOULD find drum corps being the priority. If a band director is so short-sighted as to not recognize the fact that these kids bring with them an immense package of talent, drive, teamwork, rehearsal etiquette, etc, then he or she is guilty of band director malpractice. The few band directors whom I have known to frown upon DCI involvement are the least secure, and for good reason. The really good band directors ENCOURAGE their students to play all summer, be that music camp, string camp, jazz camp, or drum corps. To quote Maynard Ferguson, "There's no such thing as bad bands...just bad band directors." I was going to snip your quote into a smaller chunk, but really, it's perfect as is. Everything you said plus: the two activities are so beneficial to each other. A band develops a player over the school year and a corps add another dimension to that player which he then brings back the following fall. I made my original comment based on the OP's topic of high schoolers. Many of the same things are relevant to college marchers, but I'm not going to stray off into a college student's scholly requirements. That's a different animal. Barring the snot-nosed kid that Stu is worried about, most corps members come back and prove excellent members, role models, students. I don't see it as someone coming back into band after others have been "busting their humps" for two weeks because those two weeks have likely been spent going over very basic material, and hasn't the corps member been busting their hump as well? It isn't as if he were lying on a beach in Hawaii during band camp. I just can't see that being the source of resentment among band members. Resentment is usually along the lines of, "Dude, omg you had the best summer! I am so gonna try out for _____Corps next season!" eta: I can cite so many positive developments within our own band program that have been inspired by returning corps members. For example, the band kids saw what great shape the corps members were in and developed their own physical training regime OUTSIDE of camp hours. Trickle down swagger can be a great thing - horn snaps cleaner, heads up higher, section pride and teamwork, these things benefit the band. With the right members and the right attitude the corps to band transition need not be divisive. Edited August 25, 2012 by CLD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyrp Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Stu respectfully I'm gonna disagree to a few of your points here. College and HS are not even comparable because of money. Missing HS band camp or missing a scholarship sanctioned College Band Camp are like apples n oranges. Both are fruit sure but in the end they look, feel and are different. I'm going to add this.... Letting my band members march corps and miss camp boils down to one word- Trust! I trust that they will come back with the mental focus necessary to do their jobs and know the differences between rehearsing in a band and a drum corps. If u needed to know why I'm a BK Homer it's precisely about how they prepare their membership to re-enter their various levels of life. My students and ex students come back with the necessary helpful and respectful attitude to contribute maturely without overstepping their bounds. In addition I also disagree with the idea of choices being made on one thing vs another. I was in 4 sports, band, FFA, student council, Boy Scouts and other activities. Somehow I managed my time to do all of those activities and it made me better prepared in life for multi tasking and being efficient in time. In my HS band I have students involved such as football players (even Varsity that march) and other athletes, choir, theater, ROTC etc.... I teach a large 5A HS that is successful in all activities because we're giving of our students. This year we seek to make our 3rd straight trip to the State Marching Contest and I'd venture to say we'd never have done that by putting "make a choice," as our guide. Drum Corps is no different- Why give up a marching event and chose a marching event?Why be so rigid that students in a HS band would not benefit from having drum corps membership? Over the past 5-6 years I've had kids marching in all sorts of drum corps and it only helps out program and does something else.... It motivates and excites others to get involved in drum corps? How in the world would that be construed as bad?:) Wesley Perkins OHS Band BK 97 98 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13strokeroll Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) For example, my son gets money from his University for marching. There was no mention of him not getting the money for missing most of band camp. Most activities scholarships specifically mention full attendance as a condition of compensation, especially Div 1 schools that also compete in Field Band competitions - it has a potential impact on the School of Music reputation, recruiting ability,and potential revenue. SEC school here required written authorization ffrom the Director to attend Finals, but DCI was the only activity which such permission was given. Edited August 25, 2012 by 13strokeroll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Most activities scholarships specifically mention full attendance as a condition of compensation. And rightfully so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Stu respectfully I'm gonna disagree to a few of your points here. College and HS are not even comparable because of money. Missing HS band camp or missing a scholarship sanctioned College Band Camp are like apples n oranges. Both are fruit sure but in the end they look, feel and are different. I'm going to add this.... Letting my band members march corps and miss camp boils down to one word- Trust! I trust that they will come back with the mental focus necessary to do their jobs and know the differences between rehearsing in a band and a drum corps. If u needed to know why I'm a BK Homer it's precisely about how they prepare their membership to re-enter their various levels of life. My students and ex students come back with the necessary helpful and respectful attitude to contribute maturely without overstepping their bounds. In addition I also disagree with the idea of choices being made on one thing vs another. I was in 4 sports, band, FFA, student council, Boy Scouts and other activities. Somehow I managed my time to do all of those activities and it made me better prepared in life for multi tasking and being efficient in time. In my HS band I have students involved such as football players (even Varsity that march) and other athletes, choir, theater, ROTC etc.... I teach a large 5A HS that is successful in all activities because we're giving of our students. This year we seek to make our 3rd straight trip to the State Marching Contest and I'd venture to say we'd never have done that by putting "make a choice," as our guide. Drum Corps is no different- Why give up a marching event and chose a marching event?Why be so rigid that students in a HS band would not benefit from having drum corps membership? Over the past 5-6 years I've had kids marching in all sorts of drum corps and it only helps out program and does something else.... It motivates and excites others to get involved in drum corps? How in the world would that be construed as bad?:) Wesley Perkins OHS Band BK 97 98 Ok, please go to your administration, your superintendent, and state that you are going to miss all of you summer in-service activities and most of your own band camp because you are on staff of a high quality drum & bugle corps; and you also want to not only still receive all of your stipends but also keep your job. I guarantee you that this will not fly in the real world of career; yet that is what is being taught to the youth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Depends on the employer, the day job and the career. If it is an extracurricular activity that promotes growth and educates - I would allow it as I am sure others do as well. Sometimes, I will even pay for it, if it is in my best interest and is in direct relation to the job they do daily. If the persons job is maintained and covered during their time off and they can stay up to speed with all the activities in their project plan - Of course I would allow it. If they are not meeting those needs then there might be an issue. Growth of an employee is as important as the job itself. Promoting growth gains a long time dedicated employee that will always do their best at that position. Managing employees is not always cut and dry/bottom line. Being a great employer is even more difficult because decisions like this must be made. Due to the economy, we are not seeing this as often because everyone is stretched thin. But there are employers that still believe that their employees are the lifeblood of their company. Most activities scholarships specifically mention full attendance as a condition of compensation, especially Div 1 schools that also compete in Field Band competitions - it has a potential impact on the School of Music reputation, recruiting ability,and potential revenue. SEC school here required written authorization ffrom the Director to attend Finals, but DCI was the only activity which such permission was given. Some schools even give credit. Scholarships maybe lost but other school credit maybe given. Depends on the school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyrp Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Ok, please go to your administration, your superintendent, and state that you are going to miss all of you summer in-service activities and most of your own band camp because you are on staff of a high quality drum & bugle corps; and you also want to not only still receive all of your stipends but also keep your job. I guarantee you that this will not fly in the real world of career; yet that is what is being taught to the youth. No.... U are mixing this up. Plenty of people on Staff do this and again the word is- trust. While gone the staff in place take care of the students and prepare them. Staff members go home for various reasons during the summer including school activities but most districts are very understanding. Again being on a staff of a great drum corps will only serve to give ideas to further what you're doing in the classroom.... You know what doing multiple activities teaches Stu? It teaches students to manage their time. Most of us had to Work and go to College at the same time. You learn how to communicate better and be more structured with more on your plate. If your in college should u quit band to concentrate on your studies? College bands are made up of large part non music majors. In teaching, mNy of us judge/Teach Master Classes or lessons, or have a second job. All the while many Are married with families. Sharing time? Doing multiple things at one time? You bet. Plus let's not forget that employers and Universities want the best of the best. You don't earn respect by lessening your resume! Life is not about Choice of only one thing, it's about compromise and learning how to succeed through adversity. Sounds an awful lot like what marching band and corps offer.... Wes P 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyGranite Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Ok, please go to your administration, your superintendent, and state that you are going to miss all of you summer in-service activities and most of your own band camp because you are on staff of a high quality drum & bugle corps; and you also want to not only still receive all of your stipends but also keep your job. I guarantee you that this will not fly in the real world of career; yet that is what is being taught to the youth. And yet, many corporations not only allow...but encourage their employees to take time off from their jobs to participate in the Olympics. Why do you think they do that? Could it be that they see some potential benefit? Schools and universities are, by and large, not dumb. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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