HS Marchers

[13strokeroll]

Is that really what you get out of this?

That is precisely what should be taken from this.

[Kevin Powell]

What dreamworld are these corporations in? In the real world, there'd be 2 choices: quit or face discipline.

This dream world is not as far away as you think. It just depends on the company. It is a great policy and it is actually proven to make people more productive. I have folks that take time to go to school and seminars and training all the time and they/we never miss a deadline. They also know that if the policy is abused - they'll be on the street. Pretty simple.

The self entitled stuff that was mentioned would never happen to that extreme. I've never seen it happen. A fry cook at Burger King maybe or maybe a bag boy at your grocery store. Pregnancy Leave, is that the self entitlement that was mentioned?

[mn trumpter guy]

So... 5 to 10 years from now, when I hire one of these new kids coming out of school, I can expect that do not have the ability to prioritize or make a decision effectively?

That is encouraging.

That is precisely what should be taken from this.

Personally I wouldn't go to that extreme (that was my interpretation of Stu's viewpoint.)

Like I said though: I have noticed my students not understanding that the world is not always accommodating to their every whim. Is that because of dci? Heck no- none of them march (yet).

My guess is its a product of how our world and culture has changed. We are so accommodating to very thing that when something logistically can't work, some people just flat out don't know what to do.

Edited August 26, 2012 by mn trumpter guy

[CLD]

I love the way this thread has gone off the rails (er, evolved)

Wasn't this all about having time for corps with a high school schedule? I'm going to go back to the high school frame of reference for a minute and the all important college application: Admission depts. look at the depth and breadth of a student's extra curriculars, they want to see involved kids. Frankly, you'd think you need to cure cancer in your junior year to garner an admission from some schools. College is competitive, life is competitive.

I know plenty of kids who manage corps, band, sports, acadec, scouts, and countless other activities. They are valedictorians, class leaders, community service organization members. They find a way to do all of these things without diluting them. I don't think many of these youth organizations take a "your time is ours - all or nothing" stance. They recognize that today's youth are pulled in a variety of directions. I tell ya, it's a far cry from my lazy misspent childhood. I'm hopeful for tomorrow when I see some of these kids, I certainly don't see a sense of "me first" entitlement. I see kids learning values, leadership, time management, competition, sportsmanship. These are students I would want to admit - these are future adults I would want to employ.

(of course, these are the same kids doing sometimes x-rated and usually crude things on tour buses - ahhh to be young again)

Edited August 26, 2012 by CLD

[Kevin Powell]

Personally I wouldn't go to that extreme (that was my interpretation of Stu's viewpoint.)

if we could only beat a band parent or make them do pushups. pushups are a brain exercise that makes people smarter.

I knew that you were interpreting stu. I'm sure these kids will get a clue in 5-10 years or they'll miss their bus and get left somewhere.

[mn trumpter guy]

I love the way this thread has gone off the rails (er, evolved)

Wasn't this all about having time for corps with a high school schedule? I'm going to go back to the high school frame of reference for a minute and the all important college application: Admission depts. look at the depth and breadth of a student's extra curriculars, they want to see involved kids. Frankly, you'd think you need to cure cancer in your junior year to garner an admission from some schools. College is competitive, life is competitive.

I know plenty of kids who manage corps, band, sports, acadec, scouts, and countless other activities. They are valedictorians, class leaders, community service organization members. They find a way to do all of these things without diluting them. I don't think many of these youth organizations take a "your time is ours - all or nothing" stance. They recognize that today's youth are pulled in a variety of directions. I tell ya, it's a far cry from my lazy misspent childhood. I'm hopeful for tomorrow when I see some of these kids, I certainly don't see a sense of "me first" entitlement. I see kids learning values, leadership, time management, competition, sportsmanship. These are students I would want to admit - these are future adults I would want to employ.

(of course, these are the same kids doing sometimes x-rated and usually crude things on tour buses - ahhh to be young again)

You are, of course, absolutely right. For every kid out there who is only in things for themselves, there are tons who want to be a part of something great. Who do everything without compromising quality or character.

Thank you for bringing us back to the positive.

[Kevin Powell]

Our county started school Aug 1st...with band camp activity as early as July 9th.

There is no way a high school student could march in a corps. Is it the same in your area?

To answer the OP. You are about a week ahead of us. We would have the same issue.

I'm not sure I would let a high school student march full tour, but that is me.

Depends on the band program, the kid and if the kid likes PB&Js.

[azul]

Thank you two for proving my point that we are developing youth who feel entitled to get all they want, when they want, at 'their' convenience. And by the way, scholarships should certainly have strict responsibilities and restrictions tied to them; while they are earned through playing or academic talent they are not 'free' money entitlements!! The kid could have chosen to pay for school instead of corps and the scholarship could have gone to another person, so attaching requirements to that scholarship is flat correct!! And the university having no clue, are you kidding me!! That is like saying a band director's school which employees him/her has no clue so the band director should be allowed to miss band camp to instruct corps!! Good grief people, no wonder our country is developing more and more "it is all about me self-centered youth who feel entitled to do everything, have everything, without any consequences".

I have to come at this from several angles. I marched while in high school and at the same time auditioned for on field drum major (dm that marches the show) but my director cease to give me the title due to me being gone marching corps. I was ok with that until I found out the classmate he gave it to was gone all throughout the summer and band camp out in Japan for Japanese school! Complete crap if you ask me. But I was also extremely immature about it after the fact. I ditched camp after day one because of that. Came to the first after school rehearsal where both myself and said on field DM were in attendance for the first time. I learned 3 of 4 productions (60 pages) in 2 hours while he only got through half of the first. He ended up losing a lot of respect from the band members after that and I didn't have to say a word about it but I may or may not have had a gloating look to my face after that.

I teach/taught at several schools now whom I've had several students step up and march corps while still attending high school and coming back after tour. One school starts classes the week of DCI finals. School and director were very cool for the kid missing because he was on top of his game and made his section step it up without saying a word to them but through his energy and emotion during performance.

A few other schools I taught at start band camp the Monday after finals and 2 of those 4 directors love the thought of having their kids march corps! But the kicker is 3 of the 4 marched corps. One director marched VK, another marched and was the DM of Vangaurd and the other Freelancers. But one of these three said they would not condone the kid marching corps and missing camp but yet that same director is ok with having his none corps students miss camp for SAT prep, internships, family vacations and the sort. If this is how a program is ran then you really need to rethink your motives.

Just my $0.02

[RockyGranite]

I will tell ya what I get out of this thread; a friend of mine said to me about a year ago that we are heading the way of Greece. I told him, "No way, this is America, Jack!" Well, when I read and hear adults and youth who in essence want to start a job on Monday yet leave for a week on Tuesday to do something seal-gratifying, then when they get back they want Friday and Monday off to go do something else, and want to go to this other activity next summer, they want an office with a window near a door to leave at their discretion, yet receive full payment compensation and job security for the work they should have stayed at in the first place,... now I am leaning to say, "Yep, we are heading the way of Greece!". We are developing such a self-centered entitlement philosophy in this culture in which we think that we can do what we want, when we want, at any time we want without any sense of duty, honor, and responsibility; and then people wonder why corporations seek to build their plants in a countries where people want to work for a living! It is 'not' the pay differential, it is the pay differential plus all these 'I am entitled to this and that at my selfish whim' which drives the companies out of this country!

Well, Stu...like I said early on, you certainly do have a weird way of interpreting things.

Others have responded directly to this post of yours, so I'll pass. But I do want to give you this anecdote that, in my mind, is an example of a LOT of young people...especially drum corps people.

When my son was in elementary and middle school, he had a lot of interests. He was in the school band, of course, but he was also on the math challenge team, the track team, he had a science fair project going and he was in the Spanish club. Then he wanted to get into the Adventuring club and that was when I had to sit him down and tell him that he just didn't have time for all this stuff. No matter how much he enjoyed all that stuff, he was missing out on the time to spend just on himself. So I gave him a limit of three activities...besides band. The thing is, Stu...during all this, he never got a complaint from any person running any of these activities about him expecting some special consideration because of the other activities. He made it work and he probably could have made Adventuring work as well. He has always been a team player and has always put more than 100% of himself in each activity. But I made the right choice in limiting him because he finally had time to sit down and read a book for once. I only wish he had chosen to read something a little lighter than "Dante's Inferno". I also got him to join me in a couple of online computer games that I played. Not only was I able to actually spend some time with him, but we both learned a thing or two about each other. He saw how I interacted with people from all over the world as a leader of my guild and I got to see him lead war parties of seasoned MMO players...when he was 15 years old.

Now, Stu...lest you think I'm just tooting my son's horn, I want you to know that I've met MANY other kids just like my son. Maybe you've not seen them, but they are out there. They don't deserve to be lumped into your stereotype. What they deserve is to be helped by all of us...when possible and when needed. I'm happy that my son's school administration and his music director doesn't think as you do.

[jjeffeory]

I guess all young people are wrong, or more likely, older people are always right.

My opinions, already worth little in the eyes of the previous generation, are now worth nothing.

Yes, he had a scholarship. I understand, I have them too. But what is to be gained by having a kid miss weeks of tour by going to a camp? Yes! I get it! He has a contract, unless he wants to lose his money he needs to do what they say. But if he's good enough to be in the Cavaliers' tenor line then the point is most likely moot.

Perhaps his school did things differently than the Cavaliers? I know my school did things very differently than the Cavaliers.

I share your angst, but I understand why the university would want their student there.

It's rough...

Edited August 26, 2012 by jjeffeory