MisterA Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I didn't want to post this in the Glassmen thread, as I don't want anything to keep them from achieving their goal. I personally will be donating some money to Glassmen this week. However I do have some questions for discussion. In the Glassmen post, they mentioned that income for the upcoming season will be approximately $550,000, but the cost of touring is going to be approximately $850,000, leaving them with a gap of $300,000. But after being around drum corps for the last 35 years, isn't this the norm for most drum corps? Aren't most of the corps expenses going to be around $850,000 for the summer? And most of them if you looked at their upcoming books for the season, would have similar incomes as well? So would it be that most corps at this point before the season looking at possible deficits of $200,000-400,000? Other than a few corps that have always been rumored to have tons of extra finances available(BD, SCV, Cadets and Cavaliers) aren't most corps in serious need of more funds than member dues, show fees, and merchandise are going to provide for the course of the summer? This last summer we had more corps not finish the season than we had in quite a few years, which really says there is something wrong. Bad economy, members not paying, maybe a few bad financial decisions made from managements(not pointing fingers at anyone, as most of us really don't know exactly what is going on with any corps) It is great that a corps does recognize that there may be issues coming up, and is planning in advance. It does seem like finances and competitivenss of the corps do seem to go hand in hand. I remember in the late 90s, Glassmen seemed to be in great financial shape, and they started breaking into the top 5. Now the last few years they have had more financial issues, and have slipped competitively. I really wonder how corps like Troopers, Pioneer, Pacific Crest, Mandarins, and many others survive. At shows, you very seldom see many people looking at their souvenirs or dropping money into their fuel funds. where as booths like Cavaliers, you literally have to break into line just to purchase a t-shirt from them. Also curious on show performance fees. Rumors have circulated that Open Class corps sometimes don't even receive any compensation for shows during the summer. And if they do receive money, ir is usually a minimal amount. Does this apply to Open Class finals shows in Indiana as well? And are they getting paid for World Class Prelims? And while I am sure the information if probably available to the public, does anyone know this year for the week of finals, how much do the corps receive in appearance fees for each show? Do all WC corps receive the same pay, or is it still broken up like is used to be where the top 8 received a certain amount, the 9-14 corps received a different amount, and everyone else below received a lower amount? Also, do corps get more in appearance fees at regionals like Atlanta, and San Antonio? It would be nice if any of the corps would be willing to share information about finances. It would be interesting to see if a corps budget from a season is $1,000,000, exactly where that money was spent. And their income for the season where the money actually came in from. If we could start to see some patterns, we might be able to prevent some corps from going under. And in the long run, it could also make the activity even more competitive. But as I see it now, there are many corps like Glassmen, that are going to be facing deficits in the hundreds of thousands each year, unless something changes. And while every corps is going to be loved by many, how many different corps are we going to be able to support. I mean, if every one of the 14 lowest placing corps are all facing deficits of $150,000 or more each season, you are looking at possibly over $3 million total these corps would need to raise each and every year. That is such a huge amount, especially when you consider that is after tour fees and member dues have been collected. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Rumors have circulated that Open Class corps sometimes don't even receive any compensation for shows during the summer. And if they do receive money, ir is usually a minimal amount. From what I understand about OC, they don't take payouts per show in the summer. After the season, all appearance fees are totaled and divided up equally at that point. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I have the feeling that this will be the start of more corps asking for assistance. This year...Teal, Bushwackers and now Glassmen. Can all the alumni support more corps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmhurstmusiced Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I realize that there are a lot of factors that go in to this, but I also feel like there are often excuses and fingers pointed. Housing costs, fuel costs, staff costs, I guarantee every corps could make cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoLondon Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Adding my few cents...BITD (before DCI tours and such)...most corps staff either were volunteer or paid just enough to cover cost and most were local as well, kids were local so need to travel for rehearsal and such was easy and therefore no need for housing during winter "camps" AND most had a very loyal local volunteer and alumni base which could and would help out for EVERYTHING. Corps cost, weekend travel and even take vacation for a one of two week "tour" to Nationals. HOW many volunteers and alumni can afford to travel to the corps they support if they don't live by the corps like before or how many volunteers can fly to meet their corps on the road and take vacation to do it as well. After awhile you burn out even the most dedicated. I've done it and I know you can only do it so long. Now EVERYTHING has to be paid for more than BITD...staff, buses, drivers, new equipment and uniforms (every couple of years at least)etc. Even if we had top notch management for every corps which could run on budget and volunteers who made up for some more the financial demands of today's touring is and will kill drum corps as we know it. I know it's said "if it ain't broke don't fix it" but this model IS BROKE! Sad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmhurstmusiced Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Here's a thought, how is Pioneer making it work. They're not always at the top of the food chain competitively, but they field a corps and make something happen. But again, it's obviously DCI's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Historical thought - went from small local corps to large touring corps as groups left sponsorship of local Posts/church/etc and got more prize money (yes prize money then) and more money from other supporters. Now as things are getting more and more expensive are we hitting the breaking point and should expect a swing back the other way? Trying to think of a non-musical comparision for groups cutting way back and going local but getting nothing at the moment. Can just come up with scout troops and youth baseball groups that went undet due to costs and/or lack of adult help. Edited October 23, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Historical thought - went from small local corps to large touring corps as groups left sponsorship of local Posts/church/etc and got more prize money (yes prize money then) and more money from other supporters. Now as things are getting more and more expensive are we hitting the breaking point and should expect a swing back the other way? I personally doubt DCI would be able to swing back the "other way" at anywhere close to the level it is at today, show and performance-wise. I doubt the potential members would want such an activity, and I also doubt that a small local geographic area would support such an activity at this point in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) I personally doubt DCI would be able to swing back the "other way" at anywhere close to the level it is at today, show and performance-wise. I doubt the potential members would want such an activity, and I also doubt that a small local geographic area would support such an activity at this point in time. I don't see a total swing back possible either Mike. I was thinking of cutting back in some ways that might have been discussed in other threads. More like stepping away from the touring is the "Be all, end all" mentality that some have. Actually a shorter season like we have now, could be part of that but that was not due to financial reasons IIRC. Edited October 23, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralTsoChicken Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I really wonder how corps like Troopers survive... At shows, you very seldom see many people looking at their souvenirs or dropping money into their fuel funds. where as booths like Cavaliers, you literally have to break into line just to purchase a t-shirt from them. I would say year in and year out that the classic troopers shirt is one of the top selling drum corps souvenirs. If it isn't THE top selling drum corps souvenir of all time, I'd be interested to know what is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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