xbones7480 Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) Crossmen haven't purchased new uniforms since 2004. They have the same shirts and pants they had in '04. Their uniform department (volunteers) make changes to the guantlets and whatnot... They are getting a new uni design for their 40th Anniversary (2014), which is appropriate I think. Edited June 16, 2013 by xbones7480 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barigirl78 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 Perish the thought that a corps would receive criticism or need accountability for how monies are collected and spent. Mismanagement of funds is a problem in DCI. This is why DCP is now so disappointing, namely no one can critique, even in a constructive manner without someone taking it personally. I, frankly, am tired of the lavish spending that has gone on in some corps and seeing dues sky-rocket. Why do corps need new uniforms every year? Why do they need new instruments every year? It seems that if someone wants to march in an upper elite corps, they have to put out a second mortgage on a house. Too many people on the forum, especially during the season, spend a lot of time ignoring some major issues (e.g., the (mis)use of funds) that have led to the demise of many, many corps. Nuff said. There is not reason you can't point out mis-management and wasted spending. I just wonder why you chose the Crossmen thread to do it. As a corps that has been outside the top 12 for many years, they hardly have been earning the revenue the top corps get. They haven't had new uniforms in years. They haven't spent nearly as much of their show and their staffs as the "G7" corps do. As a result, Director Fred Morrison has been very creative in how to save money using his experience as a businessman. He's devised some schemes for supplying the corps with food during tour cheaper and other corps have benefited from copying his ideas. He's very respected for his financial savvy. I have been vocal in other threads myself about runaway spending in drum corps in general. The Crossmen just are a lousy example to pick to bring up these issues. The number of people trying out this year was higher than it had been in years because they made the top 12. As for the people who tried out, but didn't make it, is it any different from a parent paying to send their kid to tennis camp who will never be good enough to be a professional tennis player? They still get plenty of instruction and experience. I believe many kids go to drum corps try-outs knowing they won't make it. They do it to get the experience that will pay off the following year or the year after that when they do make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 This is why DCP is now so disappointing, namely no one can critique, even in a constructive manner without someone taking it personally. ... Too many people on the forum, especially during the season, spend a lot of time ignoring some major issues (e.g., the (mis)use of funds) that have led to the demise of many, many corps. Nuff said. Well, a good portion of the off-season on DCP, some nine months of the year, was taken up by discussion of financial issues, from the pleas for funds from Bushwackers and Glassmen in the fall, to the controversy around the new G7 proposals in January, to garfield's subsequent and enormous analysis of DCI corps' financial statements. But once the season gets underway, a slower discussion like his very important work is likely to be buried by day-to-day show news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corbin Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 There is not reason you can't point out mis-management and wasted spending. I just wonder why you chose the Crossmen thread to do it. As a corps that has been outside the top 12 for many years, they hardly have been earning the revenue the top corps get. They haven't had new uniforms in years. They haven't spent nearly as much of their show and their staffs as the "G7" corps do. As a result, Director Fred Morrison has been very creative in how to save money using his experience as a businessman. He's devised some schemes for supplying the corps with food during tour cheaper and other corps have benefited from copying his ideas. He's very respected for his financial savvy. I have been vocal in other threads myself about runaway spending in drum corps in general. The Crossmen just are a lousy example to pick to bring up these issues. The number of people trying out this year was higher than it had been in years because they made the top 12. As for the people who tried out, but didn't make it, is it any different from a parent paying to send their kid to tennis camp who will never be good enough to be a professional tennis player? They still get plenty of instruction and experience. I believe many kids go to drum corps try-outs knowing they won't make it. They do it to get the experience that will pay off the following year or the year after that when they do make it. I did not arbitrarily get on the Crossmen discussion to make the point about THEM, but wanted to link what was said to the larger discussion about how there needs to be more accountability how money is made and spent in the activity generally. The FACT IS that the activity is getting smaller and tours getting shorter because of the money. How much money is spent corresponds very much to the success of failure of a corps survival. In other words, drum corps is now more of a business than it ever has been. My point is that for many it is not longer worth the cost to try out if one knows they cannot make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Perish the thought that a corps would receive criticism or need accountability for how monies are collected and spent. Mismanagement of funds is a problem in DCI. This is why DCP is now so disappointing, namely no one can critique, even in a constructive manner without someone taking it personally. I, frankly, am tired of the lavish spending that has gone on in some corps and seeing dues sky-rocket. Why do corps need new uniforms every year? Why do they need new instruments every year? It seems that if someone wants to march in an upper elite corps, they have to put out a second mortgage on a house. Too many people on the forum, especially during the season, spend a lot of time ignoring some major issues (e.g., the (mis)use of funds) that have led to the demise of many, many corps. Nuff said. This type of post is appropriate - maybe a little more appropriate as a separate thread dealing with DC business. When it attaches to one corps' status thread, it's easy to come to an inference that you identify that corps with bad management. I'm not seeing it as I look at this Crossmen corps. As a parent I'd love to see the tuition and fees lower, but it's an open market. if it's too much for the market they'll fail. Seems to be priced right now, although I wish I didn't have to pay it :). Audition camps? Again not seeing this issue at Crossmen - my daughter (who now plays with Crossmen's pit) did an audition camp with a top 10 corps back East year before last (2012 season). No tech for her instrument showed up for auditions, so they played, hung out, paid their fees, and were invited to fly back the next month to audition again. That, to me is shady business. Not seeing it out here. Look, businesses get criticized for their business tactics. Look at Bank of America, AIG, Exxon, the list goes on and on. You will probably not find a squeaky, squeaky, squeaky clean efficient business in modern drum corps - the margins are too ####### tight. It's always going to be tight. If you feel defensive about what you think of as DCP'ers "attacking" you for your business feelings, maybe just consider the thrust of this particular thread about this specific corps. A business thread would undoubtedly be interesting. I taught a well known corps on tour that stopped being able to afford to feed their kids decades ago. There are some horrific instances of business malfeasance. Just not sure that attaching that approach to a thread called "Crossmen 2013" will get the discussion you seek, unless of course you want people flaming at you so you can feel better than the rest of the DCP posters who aren't as business smart as you are. And don't kid yourself - people write posts and threads just to feel like that from time to time - might not be you, but it happens. Crossmen seem business healthy - they have my tour fee in their coffers, and at this point with no regrets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corbin Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 This type of post is appropriate - maybe a little more appropriate as a separate thread dealing with DC business. When it attaches to one corps' status thread, it's easy to come to an inference that you identify that corps with bad management. I'm not seeing it as I look at this Crossmen corps. As a parent I'd love to see the tuition and fees lower, but it's an open market. if it's too much for the market they'll fail. Seems to be priced right now, although I wish I didn't have to pay it :). Audition camps? Again not seeing this issue at Crossmen - my daughter (who now plays with Crossmen's pit) did an audition camp with a top 10 corps back East year before last (2012 season). No tech for her instrument showed up for auditions, so they played, hung out, paid their fees, and were invited to fly back the next month to audition again. That, to me is shady business. Not seeing it out here. Look, businesses get criticized for their business tactics. Look at Bank of America, AIG, Exxon, the list goes on and on. You will probably not find a squeaky, squeaky, squeaky clean efficient business in modern drum corps - the margins are too ####### tight. It's always going to be tight. If you feel defensive about what you think of as DCP'ers "attacking" you for your business feelings, maybe just consider the thrust of this particular thread about this specific corps. A business thread would undoubtedly be interesting. I taught a well known corps on tour that stopped being able to afford to feed their kids decades ago. There are some horrific instances of business malfeasance. Just not sure that attaching that approach to a thread called "Crossmen 2013" will get the discussion you seek, unless of course you want people flaming at you so you can feel better than the rest of the DCP posters who aren't as business smart as you are. And don't kid yourself - people write posts and threads just to feel like that from time to time - might not be you, but it happens. Crossmen seem business healthy - they have my tour fee in their coffers, and at this point with no regrets. This is one of the best responses to anything I have written on DCP to date. Thank you, Mr. Fallon, for the thoughtful response and not be dismissive of what is an important topic of discussion. Often, some on the forum believe that I am negative just to be so and this is simply NOT the case. As a business, where a lot of money is not changing hands, people (e.g., parents and members) need to hold corps more accountable for how and where the money is spent. To give an example, when I first marched 23 years ago, it cost $500 dues and that was it. Think about how the activity has changed in the last two decades. With the amounts of money that corps are now taking in and pouring out, people need to take a significant interest in what is going on in the activity. DCI and its various corps are now businesses that metaphorically sell stocks (e.g., the opportunity to be selected to march or be declined) and the gamble to audition or not is like the rise and fall of the market and a lot must be considered when applying to most corps now. The more corps act like businesses and want people to invest their money, the more serious the activity and the experience of marching becomes. Again thank you taking the time to respond graciously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 this thread just seems like a weird place for your post, that is all other people are saying, I think. obviously Crossmen's stock is "up" since they had a huge audition turnout. If people didn't think they were getting their money's worth then they wouldn't go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxBigfoot Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I can't wait to see how the show fits the great music. I saw the capital show last night and feel they are in a great track for a possible sat night show come August Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 It wasn't too long ago that the Crossmen almost didn't exist... a big change happened... and then some more on top of that. They had some POOR performing years after the move.. but smart business decisions behind that helped keep the corps afloat. Maybe someone should speak up more.. if they haven't already been doing so :P :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Anyway... on the show. Really digging the arrangements. Flow isn't really there yet... but it will come. Every corps struggles with flow this early on. Horns sound REALLY good. I think they will be one of the best sounding lines yet again. Can't wait to see the whole concept come together on the field! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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