Which will be the First "G-7" to Disown Hopkin's Letter?

[soccerguy315]

being forbidden from playing in weekend shows.

Don't try to make up hyperbole in order to make up your point: in the end it only weakens it.

Let me help you out, this is what the original proposal said:

slide24

WEEKENDS ARE A MIX OF THE SUPERSHOWCASE SATURDAY EVENTS and FRIDAY and SUNDAY TOUR OF CHAMPION SPECIAL EVENTS

The Tour of Champions would present 12-14 events per year that are on Fridays and Sundays in the vicinity of the Saturday Super Showcase!

slide 44

Touring Corps ( AA) will perform Monday through Thursday and Saturday.

Tour of Champions will perform Friday through Sunday and once or twice during the week

A Class corps can compete in Saturday events and weekday events as the schedule and geography allows

perc2100... perhaps you should review the G7 plan so you are more familiar with what it says. As you can see, it explicitly says that the "touring corps" (read non G7 top 17, essentially) will perform on certain days. None of those days are Friday or Sunday.

Edited January 22, 2013 by soccerguy315

[skywhopper]

3rd, Boston, and any other corps, seems free to do whatever they want. Not making enough money in appearance fees? Do something about it: perform paid clinics, start your own series of shows with other corps, etc. Some might gripe about the Seven looking to make more money for themselves, and I turn that around and say why doesn't Boston, or Scouts, or some other corps wanting to make more money do something about it? Instead of naively thinking money will come your way without changing anything, sometimes you have to be proactive and figure out new ways to increase revenue.

This is silly. The G7 are trying to stack the deck against the lower tier corps at the level of DCI scheduling, payment tiers, and explicit distinction between their group and the corps just below them. If DCI goes along with the G7 plan, the rest of the corps would be a severe disadvantage, and no amount of working harder as you propose would ever let corps like Boston or Madison make up the difference.

[N.E. Brigand]

1st of all, I don't think anyone is

"being forbidden from playing in weekend shows"

Don't try to make up hyperbole in order to make up your point: in the end it only weakens it.

Well, you're just wrong, because that is exactly what SE7EN have proposed: weekends for the top seven corps only.

2nd, it seems pretty clear that Boston has zero intentions of wanting to do something like what the seven have in mind. Regardless of their placement, either Boston doesn't want to get involved (as expressed by some Boston folks on here), or maybe the 'seven' don't want to include Boston for some reason.

You're wrong again, because I never said Boston wanted to be part of SE7EN. It's not a matter of being "involved": it's a matter of having no say in DCI's future. What I said is that SE7EN have proposed to disenfranchise all the other corps, either by giving each SE7EN corps two votes against one vote each for corps ranked eighth to twentieth, as in their 2010 scheme, or by taking voting power away from corps ranked thirteenth to twentieth, as in their new request; the latter version gives them a majority so that can immediately make all the other changes listed in their 2010 proposal. I'm also saying that SE7EN have proposed that they will be given permanent status as "premier corps", whose vote cannot be taken away, no matter how poorly they do in the future--and that they will make it much harder for other corps to do as well as they have.

3rd, Boston, and any other corps, seems free to do whatever they want. Not making enough money in appearance fees? Do something about it: perform paid clinics, start your own series of shows with other corps, etc. Some might gripe about the Seven looking to make more money for themselves, and I turn that around and say why doesn't Boston, or Scouts, or some other corps wanting to make more money do something about it? Instead of naively thinking money will come your way without changing anything, sometimes you have to be proactive and figure out new ways to increase revenue.

Third time's not the charm! Once more, you're simply wrong. No one is complaining about SE7EN trying to make more money: the complaint is that they're trying to make more money by taking it from the other corps. "Do something about it", to use your words, should be just what DCI says to the SE7EN corps, adding, "that doesn't result in a smaller payout for everyone else". Or maybe DCI should offer an equally ridiculous counter-proposal: no more tour fees for SE7EN.

There was no hyperbole in my post. But lots of people, even active participants in these forum, apparently remain ignorant of just what SE7EN have explicitly indicated they wish to do.

I don't see a need, at this time, to draw lines in the sand and condemn corps for coming up with new ways to make money. Right now we basically have leaked emails that are essentially "work product" of ideas.

We have two documents: the e-mail from SE7EN to the rest of DCI that was leaked a couple weeks ago, and the 2010 Power Point that was actually presented to DCI, and resulted in a quick vote by DCI's full membership to remove two SE7EN members from the board, so that they could not act on it. Never mind condemning the SE7EN; all I want is for the rest of DCI not to sign their own death warrants--and that's only slight hyperbole, given the impossible conditions that would be imposed on them if they agree to SE7EN's recent proposal.

[HockeyDad]

Well, it looks like the two camps have formed nicely. And here we are, sniping at each other. I don't know about leaving dci or not leaving dci, but, I do know that this "7" stuff has had one effect: it has splintered us in DCP into two groups. And for that, I for one am rather pizzed off about it. Instead of happy anticipation of a new season, here we are hatin' on each other. It really makes me appreciate what Star did, by leaving dci and pursuing their own thing. Sure I was sad about it, but now we see the alternative - "don't make us leave.....we really mean it this time............"

IMO George and Dave and the little 5, who are apparently too timid to let their voices be heard publicly, should Stay, or they should Go. Just make a decision already. Stop holding the activity hostage. At this point, you've made me so mad I don't care if you leave. You've lost my respect with your immature and selfish attitudes. Grow up.

[MikeD]

Well, you're just wrong, because that is exactly what SE7EN have proposed: weekends for the top seven corps only.

Since when did Saturday become a weekday?

[N.E. Brigand]

Since when did Saturday become a weekday?

Well, I'm wrong! And you're right: SE7EN only want to prevent other corps from performing on Fridays and Sundays.

I apologize for the mistake, and thank you for your correction.

[Jeff Ream]

I dunno, I feel green about it

[cixelsyd]

Some might gripe about the Seven looking to make more money for themselves, and I turn that around and say why doesn't Boston, or Scouts, or some other corps wanting to make more money do something about it? Instead of naively thinking money will come your way without changing anything, sometimes you have to be proactive and figure out new ways to increase revenue.

So because Boston and Madison have not demanded money be taken from other corps and given to them instead, you conclude that they make no effort to increase their own revenue? Really?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the first pair of corps to square off in a publicly promoted fundraising duel were Boston and Madison with their "Old School Challenge" starting a couple of years ago - an idea since copied by G7 corps.

I would say at best I'm a "casual drum corps fan," with no allegiances to anyone at this point (my corps folded awhile back because they were unable to figure out ways to keep revenue at a point where they could sustain a competitive corps). I don't necessarily care one way or the other for Cadets, or BD, or Crown, or whomever and conversely I don't really have a huge passion for Scouts or BAC or Troopers, or Crossmen, etc. I love the activity, support my students who march & friends who teach. I subscribe to FN every year, watch everyone all season long, and have fun following the activity. But I don't see a need, at this time, to draw lines in the sand and condemn corps for coming up with new ways to make money.

In regards to the G7, I think you meant "take" money, not "make" money.

[craiga]

Somehow, this discussion got turned around a bit. And since perc2100 usually has nice things to say about Boston, I'll assume it was unintentional. For the record, the Boston Crusaders have NEVER asked/demanded/requested more money from the G7 corps or DCI for that matter. Their Board of Directors operates to raise funds for the corps independent of whatever DCI pay scheme is in place. BAC is far from being on bended knee asking for money from DCI.

While I don't speak for the corps officially, my conversations with folks in Boston indicates their bigger concern is the stated intent by SOME of the G7 to insulate and institutionalize their "elite" status, which would be contrary to the DCI tradition of being able to move up through the ranks. As one of the board members put it to me last weekend in DC, "In 2000, when we were in 5th and Bluecoats were in 12th, putting a "G7" plan of some sort in place wouldn't have even been in our minds".

Most of Boston's BOD are former marching members who are every bit as intense with their fiduciary responsibilities as they were as members. They have plans in place to support the drum corps YEARS into the future. Many of them have been involved with the corps since the 60's/70's/80's. They have repeatedly witnessed the "flavor of the week" come and go, and they aren't the type to be fazed by the self-indulgences of the G7.

I will tell you that the corps members and staff are absolutely focused right now on taking the corps to "the next level" in DCI. Whether DCI ends up with 25 World Class Corps or some other number, Boston intends on making a statement this year.

Edited January 22, 2013 by craiga

[glory]

It has been delivered, disseminated, read, reviled & debated.

The only question NOW is who will be the 1st corps to DISOWN Hopkins and his "Ultimatum Letter"...

I doubt any will because I suspect they support the proposal (which doesn't amount to an "ultimatum" in my reading).

As for this unfounded speculation that Hopkins wrote this letter alone and somehow forged, coerced otherwise misapplied the names of corps who didn't consent (never mind agree), there's no evidence to back so shallow a contention. The evidence we have shows the names of seven corps. And none of those seven has whispered any hint of disagreement, disapproval or even benign concern.

That some see signs of Hopkins' syntax in the letter isn't evidence of discord. Some see Hopkins tracks in everything they dislike about drum corps. Why should this be different?

Seven corps, not one, are behind this. That's why their names are there. I know some wish it were different. I know some would rather have a single villian. Unfortunately for y'all, that's not what's happening. A majority voted for Bb. A majority voted for A&E. I don't know where this proposal is going. All I know is seven names aren't the work of one.

HH