cixelsyd Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Because you need to keep the scale of the performances relatively close. The difference between 110 and 150 is sizable, but the difference between 76 and 150 is a gulf too far. If you're promising sponsors and potential audiences 18 (or 16, or 9, whatever size makes most sense) of the Premier corps, they should have their expectations met by a product that fits certain criteria, and "enough members to make a statement" should be one of those criteria. The judges already take care of that. If the 18th best big corps is sufficiently competent, they should be able to hold off all the 76-member corps. You did not see any 76-member corps beating the Troopers in 2012. But if there is a less-than-110 corps out there that makes that better statement despite their head count, I say put them in. Otherwise, you are once again unable to tell sponsors that you really have the "best 18". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Another element I'd recommend is that DCI get rid of the all-skate regionals in favor of the old model, where you had regionals that might have 7 or 8 previous years Finalists, but not everyone. There's no drama left in the season, because by the time they hit DCI East, most people who know anything about drum corps could pretty easily predict where everyone will wind up at Finals. Make the judges in Finals week work for their paycheck by taking away any opportunities to do the full-roster ranking and rating before Prelims day. I understand the desire, but I think...and it is just a thought...that if DCI is marketing themselves around the US to scholastic-aged musicians, esp those in HS bands, DCI wants the chance for every geographic area to see all of the corps, not just at world champs. perc2100, I think your three-tier idea is also workable, though a slightly bigger Premier League would allow for a greater regional spread of corps. In terms of "why", for me, it's about two issues: Would corps currently performing in the WC division want to be considered 'lesser' in the eyes of DCI and moved down a level? I'm guessing that is how they'd see such a split (no matter what the reality is of their skill set). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Would corps currently performing in the WC division want to be considered 'lesser' in the eyes of DCI and moved down a level? I'm guessing that is how they'd see such a split (no matter what the reality is of their skill set). Mike, FWIW, when DCI created the WC/OC split, they (DCI) reserved the right to remove any WC corps that wasn't putting on a "World Class" product - in effect protecting themselves against show sponsors that might feel they're not getting what they paid for. Clearly they've never used the "stick," but it's always been there. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Would corps currently performing in the WC division want to be considered 'lesser' in the eyes of DCI and moved down a level? I'm guessing that is how they'd see such a split (no matter what the reality is of their skill set). Probably not, but at a certain point, someone is going to have to call things as they are, if for no other reason then to maintain the credibility of DCI as an organization that arranges competitive events. If you're "World Class" but being beaten by other corps who are supposedly not as good as you, then you're probably in the wrong class to begin with. The more I think of it, the more sense a three-tier system makes. One more suggestion - make Premier finals cut-off for the top 10, and have the top 3 National (or whatever you call the second league) corps also competing on Finals night, so you're actually crowning two champions at the same event. Intersperse the national league corps in the schedule that night so they're getting the same type of audience exposure. Increase the overall audience for Finals night and give the kids marching in those corps, kids who'd normally be heading home or sitting in the stands on Saturday night, a chance to be seen by the biggest audience of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Increase the overall audience for Finals night and give the kids marching in those corps, kids who'd normally be heading home or sitting in the stands on Saturday night, a chance to be seen by the biggest audience of the year. And for that matter, guarantee an extra performance opportunity for corps who are spending a ton of money to be there in the first place; it's much easier for a group to justify the trip that way. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Mike, FWIW, when DCI created the WC/OC split, they (DCI) reserved the right to remove any WC corps that wasn't putting on a "World Class" product - in effect protecting themselves against show sponsors that might feel they're not getting what they paid for. Clearly they've never used the "stick," but it's always been there. When DCI created the split? That split was created in 1975, when DCI instituted the class A contest at their championship - in other words, back when the top division was the "open class", where anyone could voluntarily enter and compete against the top dogs. True, there is always the possibility of DCI creating policy to remove corps from WC based on placement or whatever. But no such policy is currently on the books, as far as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 One more suggestion - make Premier finals cut-off for the top 10, and have the top 3 National (or whatever you call the second league) corps also competing on Finals night, so you're actually crowning two champions at the same event. Intersperse the national league corps in the schedule that night so they're getting the same type of audience exposure. Increase the overall audience for Finals night and give the kids marching in those corps, kids who'd normally be heading home or sitting in the stands on Saturday night, a chance to be seen by the biggest audience of the year. Sort of like DCA does with combined Finals for Open Class and Class A? Except DCA doesn't intersperse the classes as you suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Wow Geoff, you are a genius!!!! Yes, I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) Sort of like DCA does with combined Finals for Open Class and Class A? Except DCA doesn't intersperse the classes as you suggest. If they're not interspersed, then people would just skip their performances, the same way they skip most of the opening hour of Finals night now. DCI needs to take efforts to show the corps at that level that they consider them as important, and this would be a little thing that cost nothing but increased the value of the experience to the kids in those corps. Who knows, some of the Finals night audience might discover a second league corps or two they really liked, and buy a t-shirt on the way out. Edited February 14, 2013 by mobrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) If they're not interspersed, then people would just skip their performances, the same way they skip most of the opening hour of Finals night now. DCI needs to take efforts to show the corps at that level that they consider them as important, and this would be a little thing that cost nothing but increased the value of the experience to the kids in those corps. Who knows, some of the Finals night audience might discover a second league corps or two they really liked, and buy a t-shirt on the way out. They can discover a second league corps right now by buying a prelims ticket. I predict general fan unhappiness by interrupting their Premier finals night with 2 or 3 second-division corps performances. I don't know, I'm just not seeing it. The members will do the math: 1st place National Division = 9th place Premier Division. Fifth place in the National Division = 13th place today. I can't imagine marching members getting their mojo on to win the second tier, not if all the other aspects of the corps in the two divisions are the same: Same number of performers; same number of tour appearances; same tour schedule; same judging panels and scoresheets; same evaluation standards; same age eligibility ranges; same sunburns; same food; same gym floors . . . All these ingredients would need to remain identical if part of the whole point is to permit second-tier corps to earn their way into the premier division through competitive excellence. Corps in each division would need to be held to identical standards to make it possible for some to move up, and others to move down. Which only reinforces the notion that it's all one class anyway, and here we are again . . . . No, if a second-tier championship is going to mean anything in its own right, something fundamental about the very nature of the activity would need to be different in the lower tier: Different tour demands, or different judging standards, or different programming rules; or something. But of course, these differences would undermine the plan to permit movement between the Premier and second tiers, and the stagnation we have today is cemented into place for good. As I said before: same sport, different game. Maybe we put the woodwinds in the second tier. Edited February 14, 2013 by 2muchcoffeeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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