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THE HAWTHORNE MUCHACHOS: WHAT REALLY HAPPENED

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I wonder if the activity will be around 30 years from now for me to reflect on where I was when the '10 coup attempt took place...

(Heck, I wonder if I'LL be around in 30 years!)

We'll pass the torch to the next generation as the previous one passed it to us, garfield. It'll be up to today's marchers and young fans as to whether the flame goes out or not. I think they'll be a reformation of some kind and then a resurgence. There is a lot of talent in today's young Corps. I'm hopeful some of them will breath new vitality into the activity when they take over.

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OK.... to sum up:

...

Yeah...that's pretty much it.

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I've long wondered what people associated with Madison Scouts thought when Jeff Kievet (or so I was told it was him) played the bull fight call from the stands just as Scouts were ready to start their performance in Finals. Does anyone have a handle on that?

Well Michael, you are correct, Jeff Kievet did indeed play the "bull fight call" from the back side line stands as we were in the process of lining up to take the field from the back side lines. As a matter of fact, we were given heads up that this would probably occur (I have no idea how this was known). But, as we were facing back field getting ready to warm up (I was a #2 side soprano), there was Jeff Kievet in the upper right corner of the back stands...He did his little "bull" thing, there was a few token hand claps from the crowd, and then we commenced to blow the back stands a few feet backwards via our warm-up (his antics only served to rev us up more than we already were). The whole Muchachos thing was surreal...I think some of us felt bad for them and we were in shock as well. But I think most of us in Madison felt like they had it coming to them because of how they carried themselves and because of that fact; I think a lot of us felt cheated that we weren’t competing against them. And that’s because there was quite a bit of trash talking from their camp as we arrived out East. We couldn’t believe their cockiness...We ended up soundly trouncing them in our only other 75' meeting which was a week earlier in Boston at CYO Nationals...But after that smack-down, their arrogance with the trash talking only increased! Thus, we were really looking forward to sticking a fork in them in Philadelphia...But we were robbed of that opportunity! And it's too bad...We were really looking forward to a "good fight" if you will! Also, the forever rumor that they beat us in prelims...WISHFULL conspiracy thinking! I had a great conversation the summer of 2006 when we did "The Alumni Project" with someone intimately connected with DCI's "upper brass" in 1975...This individual told me we had soundly beaten the Muchachos in prelims just as we had a week earlier. As a matter of fact, I don’t even think they were in 2nd place after prelims in 75’.

Just saying.

Edited by Mad75
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Well Michael, you are correct, Jeff Kievet did indeed play the "bull fight call" from the back side line stands as we were in the process of lining up to take the field from the back side lines. As a matter of fact, we were given heads up that this would probably occur (I have no idea how this was known). But, as we were facing back field getting ready to warm up (I was a #2 side soprano), there was Jeff Kievet in the upper right corner of the back stands...He did his little "bull" thing, there was a few token hand claps from the crowd, and then we commenced to blow the back stands a few feet backwards via our warm-up (his antics only served to rev us up more than we already were). The whole Muchachos thing was surreal...I think some of us felt bad for them and we were in shock as well. But I think most of us in Madison felt like they had it coming to them because of how they carried themselves and because of that fact; I think a lot of us felt cheated that we weren’t competing against them. And that’s because there was quite a bit of trash talking from their camp as we arrived out East. We couldn’t believe their cockiness...We ended up soundly trouncing them in our only other 75' meeting which was a week earlier in Boston at CYO Nationals...But after that smack-down, their arrogance with the trash talking only increased! Thus, we were really looking forward to sticking a fork in them in Philadelphia...But we were robbed of that opportunity! And it's too bad...We were really looking forward to a "good fight" if you will! Also, the forever rumor that they beat us in prelims...WISHFULL conspiracy thinking! I had a great conversation the summer of 2006 when we did "The Alumni Project" with someone intimately connected with DCI's "upper brass" in 1975...This individual told me we had soundly beaten the Muchachos in prelims just as we had a weak earlier. As a matter of fact, I don’t even think they were in 2nd place after prelims in 75’.

Just saying.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and memories.

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I take it that this was not the 'deaf, dumb, and blind kid "Tommy"'. I guess if he was he would have had a hard time pointing out the perp...

Concerning your surrounding of Tommy - maybe D.D. thought you looked old for your age...

I wish you'd all stop talking about me this way. It wasn't me. I was only 9 and I didn't march until 1983. (When we beat Cavies in every DCM show, at least.)

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I wish you'd all stop talking about me this way. It wasn't me. I was only 9 and I didn't march until 1983. (When we beat Cavies in every DCM show, at least.)

The first step in healing is admitting denial. We're a forgiving bunch...we'll help you pull through this. But first, you've got to timp up.

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Well Michael, you are correct, Jeff Kievet did indeed play the "bull fight call" from the back side line stands as we were in the process of lining up to take the field from the back side lines. As a matter of fact, we were given heads up that this would probably occur (I have no idea how this was known). But, as we were facing back field getting ready to warm up (I was a #2 side soprano), there was Jeff Kievet in the upper right corner of the back stands...He did his little "bull" thing, there was a few token hand claps from the crowd, and then we commenced to blow the back stands a few feet backwards via our warm-up (his antics only served to rev us up more than we already were). The whole Muchachos thing was surreal...I think some of us felt bad for them and we were in shock as well. But I think most of us in Madison felt like they had it coming to them because of how they carried themselves and because of that fact; I think a lot of us felt cheated that we weren't competing against them. And that's because there was quite a bit of trash talking from their camp as we arrived out East. We couldn't believe their cockiness...We ended up soundly trouncing them in our only other 75' meeting which was a week earlier in Boston at CYO Nationals...But after that smack-down, their arrogance with the trash talking only increased! Thus, we were really looking forward to sticking a fork in them in Philadelphia...But we were robbed of that opportunity! And it's too bad...We were really looking forward to a "good fight" if you will! Also, the forever rumor that they beat us in prelims...WISHFULL conspiracy thinking! I had a great conversation the summer of 2006 when we did "The Alumni Project" with someone intimately connected with DCI's "upper brass" in 1975...This individual told me we had soundly beaten the Muchachos in prelims just as we had a week earlier. As a matter of fact, I don't even think they were in 2nd place after prelims in 75'.

Just saying.

I'm really glad this thread exists because posts like the above clarify some of the HUGE misconceptions of one of the most popular and favored drum corps seasons of the 70s! I, like most, always believed that the 1975 Muchachos were "in a league all of their own" with everyone else competing for 2nd place - leaving Madison only to "slide into the winning slot by default". Why? Because that's how the story has always been told (and I too as a fan of 75 have told that story the same way as a pass along). Obviously, this is not the case - which makes me feel all the worse for Madison because for decades now they have always been given less credit for 1975 than they obviously deserve. I thank you, "Mad75" for sharing the above clarifications. Thanks to this post, I think I'll go out into the living room, turn my sound system up to full blast and watch the REAL "1975 World Champions" on my Essentials Blu-Ray! :-)

P.S., If you don't have the "Essentials Blu-Ray" yet. You NEED to get it. 1975 Madison is worth the price alone!!!

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This has been a very interesting thread. I was in the newly-formed Crossmen in 1975. We weren't that close to the upper tiers of competition, competed in prelims very early in the morning of the first day of prelims, got a low score (that put us in 24th) and only heard about what happened to the Muchachos later.

I just want to advise patience with people and their memories. I was also in the Crossmen in 1976 when we got disqualified for having an overaged member also. Sometimes we discuss the incident--our "outing" happened in Sevierville--and it is amazing how different people WHO WERE THERE remember different things and in different ways.

Today, we live in an age where any important incident is documented by multiple cellphone videos. People can get on the internet immediately and share observations when their memories are fresh. If you can't remember a news story, you look it up on the internet. We can't do that with old Drum Corps News and Drum Corps World stories.*

So, we have to be a little tolerant that people are remembering an incident differently or recounting it differently. It's great to have a thread like this for people to share what they remember and we can read the different perspectives.

* as far as I know. If there is an online archive of old drum corps media stories, let me know. If there isn't, wouldn't it be great?

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I'm really glad this thread exists because posts like the above clarify some of the HUGE misconceptions of one of the most popular and favored drum corps seasons of the 70s! I, like most, always believed that the 1975 Muchachos were "in a league all of their own" with everyone else competing for 2nd place - leaving Madison only to "slide into the winning slot by default". Why? Because that's how the story has always been told (and I too as a fan of 75 have told that story the same way as a pass along). Obviously, this is not the case - which makes me feel all the worse for Madison because for decades now they have always been given less credit for 1975 than they obviously deserve. I thank you, "Mad75" for sharing the above clarifications. Thanks to this post, I think I'll go out into the living room, turn my sound system up to full blast and watch the REAL "1975 World Champions" on my Essentials Blu-Ray! :-)

P.S., If you don't have the "Essentials Blu-Ray" yet. You NEED to get it. 1975 Madison is worth the price alone!!!

I appreciate your comments, and a little further perspective... In 75', we were a corps with a HUGE chip on our shoulders that was birthed out of the "Ithaca" fiasco of 74' (it's amazing how a motivator like anger will propel you)...Our collective attitude all summer was, "this is personal, it's all business, and we won’t be denied"! Thus, we worked like a corps that was possessed! Shure, we knew how to have fun along the way, but it was something you saw in each other’s eyes all summer that reminded us continually what was at stake! The end result...An undefeated season in 75" (well, except for one little prelims hiccup in Whitewater that isn’t part of the record). I say all of this because I and every other "brother" that marched in Madison in 75' have heard your very comments over the years and we can only shake our heads in disgust. Why? Because as many things in life, the constant statement of the Muchachos pre-ordained supremacy in 1975 was baseless! Shure, we heard all the dribble leading up to CYO that this "all powerful" machine was going to eat us for breakfast when we dared to show up out East. In the end, we found that the Emperor had no cloths. It was as if we swatted a flea off of our shoulders at CYO after showing up with heavy artillery! Our collective reaction was, "geesh, that sure was blown out of proportion"! Needless to say, we had a very enjoyable free night later that evening where we were staying in Revere, MA!! In other words, the decade’s long story that the Muchachos had the championship sown up simply isn’t based upon reality. It makes for great drama and "beer talk", but it’s all baseless pure fiction. All I know is, we stepped on them a week earlier at CYO, and like Jimmy Elvord would like to say, “We shoved them and others back down in their hole that they tried to emerge from”! And like I said, I was told that they didn’t even make it into the top 2 at prelims!...And that's coming from a guy who was pretty high up within DCI standing right alongside Don P. on the sidelines in Philadelphia in 75'.

For what it's worth.

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We couldn't believe their cockiness.

And the cockiness returned in '76, demonstrated when Muchacho drum major Mike Mercandante showed up in a photo on page 15 of the July 14, 1976 issue of Drum Corps News, wearing a t-shirt with "F*** You" emblazoned on it. (Only the "F" word is spelled out.)

When I posted about this back in 2007, ironlung75, a member of the '75 Muchachos posted....

"I think the alumni are going to be selling that shirt as a tribute to Merc and Pete Mitchell, both in the picture and both wearing the shirts.

Yes we are Muchachos, we are from Jersey and if you don't like it don't read the shirt!

Thank you for your support."

Edited by Northern Thunder

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