A Hunch; A Question

[Jeff Ream]

Not all of them do, but a few big names really aren't doing themselves any favors in the PR department, that's for sure.

I'd agree. Hell does Boston even rehearse near Boston?

[cixelsyd]

Well... I'm not a history buff and I don't claim to know anything about the founding of DCI but wasn't DCI founded by a few corps and those corps that participated in DCI did so to achieve their dreams of being bigger than they were? Not all corps joined DCI yes?

DCI was founded with 13 charter members, not what I would call "a few". Their dream was to enable themselves to travel to a national/"world" championship annually, a relatively new concept at the time. Their plan to achieve that goal was to increase their share of the financial pie, even if that meant running the championship and sanctioning the tour themselves to earn that money. Their most important lesson learned* was that they needed more than 13 corps to participate to connect the dots and make a viable nationwide tour.

* - admittedly, it is no longer clear whether current DCI directors have all learned that lesson.

[mobrien]

DCI was founded with 13 charter members, not what I would call "a few".

At a time when there were still 200+ drum corps in operation.

They were "a few", and most of the rest of the activity was pretty ###### off, because it was clear that they were in it to have access to the money that their performances and recordings generated, as well as to have control over the judging system. I was around in the first few years of DCI, marching a non-DCI corps; trust me, DCI didn't do squat for anyone outside of their member corps except give them a shot to be seen at prelims at the various events.

The focus on promoting the best corps was a double edged sword. it made drum corps much more visible, and much more respectable, but it also made it harder for small, local drum corps to hold on to their best members, since kids would rather be seen in a big corps that gets television time than a local corps that has a hard time breaking 60 on the competition field. In the long view, it was probably great timing for them to strike off on their own, since the future of small town drum corps was already cast, with the end of the baby boom and the mid-70s recession that gutted the northeast and midwest factory towns that were some of drum corps' biggest supporters.

But make no mistake; DCI's purpose wasn't to create a utopia where anyone who wanted to form a drum corps would be given whatever help they needed, and even a 30 member corps from the sticks was treated as equals with the Troopers; it was the original Tour of Champions.

[MikeD]

DCI was founded with 13 charter members, not what I would call "a few".

I have read that there were 440 competitive field corps in 1971, a number that seems to make sense. 13 is actually less on a percentage basis than what exists today in DCI and you can add in DCA.

Their dream was to enable themselves to travel to a national/"world" championship annually, a relatively new concept at the time.

The VFW Nats and World Open were pretty close to that, from a competitive sense, anyway. The World Open was probably more along the lines of what the corps 'liked', rule-wise, with the 30-points for GE as opposed to the VFW single 10-point GE caption (and their 10-point "cadence" caption). I know Don Angelica had been lobbying for the workld Open modeal for a number of years...see NanciD's great website of old Drum Corps News issues, where Don wrote about what he wanted to see, back in the 60's.

Their plan to achieve that goal was to increase their share of the financial pie, even if that meant running the championship and sanctioning the tour themselves to earn that money.

That is very true...VFW Nats payouts to the corps at the "Million Dollar Pageant of Drums" were a pittance.

Their most important lesson learned* was that they needed more than 13 corps to participate to connect the dots and make a viable nationwide tour.

* - admittedly, it is no longer clear whether current DCI directors have all learned that lesson.

DCI was not a summer-long nationwide touring activity when DCI was started...it wasn't that way for years.

[MikeD]

At a time when there were still 200+ drum corps in operation.

They were "a few", and most of the rest of the activity was pretty ###### off, because it was clear that they were in it to have access to the money that their performances and recordings generated, as well as to have control over the judging system. I was around in the first few years of DCI, marching a non-DCI corps; trust me, DCI didn't do squat for anyone outside of their member corps except give them a shot to be seen at prelims at the various events.

Yup...absolutely true from my memory.

The focus on promoting the best corps was a double edged sword. it made drum corps much more visible, and much more respectable, but it also made it harder for small, local drum corps to hold on to their best members, since kids would rather be seen in a big corps that gets television time than a local corps that has a hard time breaking 60 on the competition field.

In my marching era kids moved up the chain all the time...this was pre-DCI. Garfield was made up of mostly kids from tri-state area corps, many in the Garden State Circuit. BS also had a lot of kids from other corps. My first year in drum corps, 1964, the corps I belonged to as a 10 year old (in the feeder corps) had some players leave the GSC level corps and join St Lucy's a few miles away...this was 1964.

That small non-field corps I belonged to sent most of its people to the GSC corps in town...and as stated some of them moved on the Garfield and BS. The distances were less, but the movement was happening all the time.

In the long view, it was probably great timing for them to strike off on their own, since the future of small town drum corps was already cast, with the end of the baby boom and the mid-70s recession that gutted the northeast and midwest factory towns that were some of drum corps' biggest supporters.

That, and the decline in the membership of the VFW and AL, as the WWII and Korean War vets aged. Plus, the Catholic Church lost a lot of its appeal in the inner cities through the turmoil of the late 60's.

But make no mistake; DCI's purpose wasn't to create a utopia where anyone who wanted to form a drum corps would be given whatever help they needed, and even a 30 member corps from the sticks was treated as equals with the Troopers; it was the original Tour of Champions.

Yup!

[cixelsyd]

At a time when there were still 200+ drum corps in operation.

They were "a few", and most of the rest of the activity was pretty ###### off, because it was clear that they were in it to have access to the money that their performances and recordings generated, as well as to have control over the judging system. I was around in the first few years of DCI, marching a non-DCI corps; trust me, DCI didn't do squat for anyone outside of their member corps except give them a shot to be seen at prelims at the various events.

The focus on promoting the best corps was a double edged sword. it made drum corps much more visible, and much more respectable, but it also made it harder for small, local drum corps to hold on to their best members, since kids would rather be seen in a big corps that gets television time than a local corps that has a hard time breaking 60 on the competition field. In the long view, it was probably great timing for them to strike off on their own, since the future of small town drum corps was already cast, with the end of the baby boom and the mid-70s recession that gutted the northeast and midwest factory towns that were some of drum corps' biggest supporters.

But make no mistake; DCI's purpose wasn't to create a utopia where anyone who wanted to form a drum corps would be given whatever help they needed, and even a 30 member corps from the sticks was treated as equals with the Troopers; it was the original Tour of Champions.

I understand all of that. This whole tangent originated from my response to a previous post of yours, where you said:

Which is one of the problems with DCI, as a concept. There's no financial incentive for some of the lower-ranking corps to improve their product and make themselves more sellable, and a limit to how much the more marketable corps can leverage their success in creating popular products.

There are plenty of corps that are not necessarily tops, competitively, who would still benefit from this idea, and I'd think that TEP's themselves would also find it beneficial to have the chance to put together the bill that best serves their particular audience interests. But the current model of "central planning" from the DCI office is failing to give the corps themselves an ability to benefit from their excellence and the TEP's from maximizing their own ability to create first class events.

Thought I sensed an inference from you that if any one, two or three corps (or even seven) grow to the point of being capable of creating the "next big thing", as you call it, something with open market drawing potential of its own (i.e. Blast), that DCI should be serving as the launching pad or incubator for their derivative product. I replied merely to point out that DCI is a drum corps circuit, not a search for the "next big thing", and that the 13 founders of DCI intended for the circuit to serve at least 13 corps. Nowhere along the way did I contend that the original intent of DCI was to treat Blue Saints the same as Blue Devils.

[perc2100]

But make no mistake; DCI's purpose wasn't to create a utopia where anyone who wanted to form a drum corps would be given whatever help they needed, and even a 30 member corps from the sticks was treated as equals with the Troopers; it was the original Tour of Champions.

I've had this thought in my head since that original power point. This does kind of seemingly parallel the original formation of DCI in at least some ways.

[garfield]

I've had this thought in my head since that original power point. This does kind of seemingly parallel the original formation of DCI in at least some ways.

But make no mistake; DCI's purpose wasn't to create a utopia where anyone who wanted to form a drum corps would be given whatever help they needed, and even a 30 member corps from the sticks was treated as equals with the Troopers; it was the original Tour of Champions.

But this is viewing the world of drum corps through the prism of 1972 glasses - something we are continuously told here that is inappropriate and just, plain wrong. "The world has changed" we are told; "Get with the modern world, you Dino!" So to now justify that current actions are nothing more than akin to the founders's vision of what they wanted for themselves is intellectually dishonest.

In fact, the current mission statement of DCI includes:

"We seek:

- To promote, develop, and preserve the operational and artistic standard of the competitive musical sport;

- To provide organization and leadership for the activity;

- To develop and successfully operate musical events for the participating drum corps community"

These ideas have developed since the founding so, if the mission of DCI is to be true to the founders' vision of the activity, which is fine if that's what the collective body wants, then the current mission statement needs to be re-re-drafted to look again like it did in 1972.

Edited February 21, 2013 by garfield

[danielray]

notice I did say kinda contradict. And I wouldn't say the Cadets have been super successful, but they have kept the brand alive.

Yeah, apart from winning a lot, second most of any corps, they really aren't all that successful. :-)

[Stu]

Yeah, apart from winning a lot, second most of any corps, they really aren't all that successful. :-)

If the Cadets have been ultra successful, implying that they also have ability to help others instead of attempting to destroy them, then why does Hop have the desire to take all DCI services away from the 'youth' in the Open Class? Would it not be better for him to be altruistic with all that ultra success (such as invest in training seminars for various corps boards and administration staff within DCI); especially since DCI is a 501c3 youth activity not a for-profit corporation for the sake of adults financial gain?

Edited February 22, 2013 by Stu