Jeff Ream Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 There are a lot of topics intermingled with this thread ... and all topics are valuable. Maybe this should be broken into a number of threads: 1) The Business of DCI: (IMHO) The "business of DCI" is to 1) Put Butts in Seats. Period. DCI is not "about the kids". It is (or should be) about marketing its product: Drum & Bugle Corps: 1) Advertising the product; 2) Contracting venues to present the product; 3) Sell the product; 4) Make sure the product sold is worth the price of admission. There is a "secondary business" of DCI, and that's the rules side, so that competing corps can compete fairly. There are a number of people who think DCI is a 'non-profit' business, and should have that "mindset". But, unfortunately most non-profits are run poorly. There are some (like me) who think it should be professionally run like the multi-million dollar organization it is (or should be ... check out 'Hughes Aircraft' ... the largest non-profit corporation that ever existed. They made airplanes, space capsules, rockets, etc., but were still non-profit). Governance is the main issue (IMHO) of DCI, as the BOD should be composed of individuals who are 1) Not connected directly with any single corps; 2) Passionate about the activity; and 3) experts in their business area (i.e., marketing, finance, legal, technology, business, etc.), and not individual Directors who are "interested parties" (which I think is the legal term). 2) The Business of Individual Drum Corps: The "business of each corps" is what each corps Board of Directors wants it to be! It could be the "business of excellence". It could be the "business of training youth". It could be both! It is NOT up to DCI to figure out what each corps wants / should be. However, if that business/corps wants to compete with other DCI corps, then it would probably go along with the standards that (should be) / are set by DCI. This is a big issue, since there are drum corps which are successfully running their business (which directly benefits the "kids"), and most corps which can barely brake even, or are loosing money (which, in the long run "hurts the kids"). This, is what most people think is the basic division of the G7, and they are correct! There are extremely successful businesses/corps, which can afford to put out a superior product ... just as with any other activity (car racing, etc.). Some businesses/corps are not as developed, and should be marketed / judged differently, and probably more than just the 2 "levels" we have now (world class, open class). 3) The Business of Show Sponsors: There are many show sponsors out there: a) individual drum corps; b) independent organizations; 3) DCI. Running a show is way different than running a drum corps, or running a marketing organization. This is not usually a "hot topic", but if DCI / G7 starts to market differently, you can bet there will be show sponsors who want to make some money, and will want to pay the top corps to be at their shows. It seems to me like a lot of people in this thread (and previous threads) are p*ssed off because many are threatened by the G7 wanting to do business differently than the "bottom 7", or the "middle 7" (Given that there are, unfortunately, about 21 World Class corps, these are, IMHO, fair divisions). And these differences deal really with issues such as marketing, sustainability, and a viable touring model, that is both good for DCI, good for all the corps. I think that the "B(ottom)7" and the "M(iddle)7 should be screaming as much, if not louder, as the "G7", because they are forced into a nationwide touring model that is too costly for them, forcing them out of business. IMHO! /> :worthy:/> :worthy:/> :worthy:/> :worthy:/> :worthy:/> :worthy:/> :worthy:/> :worthy:/> 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 a) Saying DCI is not about the kids is like saying The Little League World Series is not about the kids. DCI is a youth activity; so by definition it is about the kids. b) DCI is a business; and it is in the business of facilitating marketing, advertising, providing venues, and competitions just like The Little League World Series. c) DCI is a non-profit, and it should be ran like other successful non-profits. And I agree about the Governance. a) The business of corps is what each board desires is true in that each corps can and should determine their own missions and goals. b) Also true that if a corps wants to compete in DCI that the corps needs to follow the rules set forth by DCI. c) I disagree with your premise as to why people are divided on the G7 because there are some G7 corps which are financially barely breaking even and some lower placing corps, and even some Open Class corps, which are way more financially sound. The division is about the egoism of the G7 directors attempting, by strong arm tactics, to downgrade and/or totally eliminate, other corps against their will in the name of their own elite exclusivity. a) Look to the Little League World Series. That organization does not support and facilitate services just for an elite 7 or 8. Teams of all levels are allowed to compete provided that they meet the organizational criteria. And sponsors are found for the first rounds, where the lower teams play, as well as sponsors are found for the final championship between the top two teams. It is about the sweat and blood of finding sponsors which DCI may need to focus their efforts. b) If DCI, and G7, really want to reach the people through marketing and make a ton of money all they need to do is watch the newest Sensa commercial to find out how the public views, has viewed, and will always view, the marching music activity. Otherwise DCI, and the G7, need to tone down their belief that this activity will ever appeal to a large enough audience to sustain their completely fill pro stadiums delusions. a) We are not threatened by the G7; nor are we upset at possibly changing the business strategy of DCI; what we are is really ticked off that the G7 want to 'hijack' DCI for their own glorification, they want to 'steal' DCI from other corps which have just as much ownership in the activity as they do, and do this instead of having the guts to go out on their own. b) I do agree with you that the other corps need to raise holy **** about taming down this unsustainable coast to coast and back again national touring. you and jeff both make great points. ####, I gave Stu props 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 a) Saying DCI is not about the kids is like saying The Little League World Series is not about the kids. DCI is a youth activity; so by definition it is about the kids. b) DCI is a business; and it is in the business of facilitating marketing, advertising, providing venues, and competitions just like The Little League World Series. c) DCI is a non-profit, and it should be ran like other successful non-profits. And I agree about the Governance. a) The business of corps is what each board desires is true in that each corps can and should determine their own missions and goals. b) Also true that if a corps wants to compete in DCI that the corps needs to follow the rules set forth by DCI. c) I disagree with your premise as to why people are divided on the G7 because there are some G7 corps which are financially barely breaking even and some lower placing corps, and even some Open Class corps, which are way more financially sound. The division is about the egoism of the G7 directors attempting, by strong arm tactics, to downgrade and/or totally eliminate, other corps against their will in the name of their own elite exclusivity. a) Look to the Little League World Series. That organization does not support and facilitate services just for an elite 7 or 8. Teams of all levels are allowed to compete provided that they meet the organizational criteria. And sponsors are found for the first rounds, where the lower teams play, as well as sponsors are found for the final championship between the top two teams. It is about the sweat and blood of finding sponsors which DCI may need to focus their efforts. b) If DCI, and G7, really want to reach the people through marketing and make a ton of money all they need to do is watch the newest Sensa commercial to find out how the public views, has viewed, and will always view, the marching music activity. Otherwise DCI, and the G7, need to tone down their belief that this activity will ever appeal to a large enough audience to sustain their completely fill pro stadiums delusions. a) We are not threatened by the G7; nor are we upset at possibly changing the business strategy of DCI; what we are is really ticked off that the G7 want to 'hijack' DCI for their own glorification, they want to 'steal' DCI from other corps which have just as much ownership in the activity as they do, and do this instead of having the guts to go out on their own. b) I do agree with you that the other corps need to raise holy **** about taming down this unsustainable coast to coast and back again national touring. Stu, DCI should not have anything in common with Little League. DCI is comprised of the best in the world at a particular activity. What confuses the brand is that there are also groups with an educational mission lumped in with the same brand. These two segments have a different focus and though what they do is technically similar, it is not the same. I do feel that corps with an educational mission should be more strongly supported, but DCI is not the best vehicle for this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Stu, DCI should not have anything in common with Little League. DCI is comprised of the best in the world at a particular activity. What confuses the brand is that there are also groups with an educational mission lumped in with the same brand. These two segments have a different focus and though what they do is technically similar, it is not the same. I do feel that corps with an educational mission should be more strongly supported, but DCI is not the best vehicle for this. Little League has held strong to it's core purpose and values; to provide an affordable healthy outlet for local youth........they held firm being their own round peg that is still able to fit into the round hole they created. They know who they are, and why they are there. Whereas the drum corps activity, inasmuch the drum corps themselves, self morphed and veered so far away from the intended founding purposes created over a hundred years ago by service organization veterans; they are now a square peg trying to fit into their originally self created round hole. Why the change of direction in the activity from what it's intended purpose was founded on? For the most part (but not in all cases) it's all about ego and money.........decades ago individuals figured out how to make money on the backs (and wallets) of the actual performing participants and also were (then) able to expand their perceived influential sphere to acquire additional personal gain from the groups they breached the womb and evolved from. The activity was not founded or designed to support the present format and concept...........it's now that square peg trying to fit into the round hole; and associations trying to make it work with the evolved hand they were dealt. What's the answer? I'll let others figure that out......I'm at a station in age with more days of life behind me than ahead of me....I've got better things to do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Stu, DCI should not have anything in common with Little League. DCI is comprised of the best in the world at a particular activity. What confuses the brand is that there are also groups with an educational mission lumped in with the same brand. These two segments have a different focus and though what they do is technically similar, it is not the same. I do feel that corps with an educational mission should be more strongly supported, but DCI is not the best vehicle for this. Hmmmm... let's test your contention: DCI is NOT a Professional Adult Major League with salaried professional adults performing on the field; DCI is a 'youth', albeit an older youth, but still a 'youth' activity with some 'youth' in a learning mode and other 'youth' being the best of the best in the world. The Little League World Series is also comprised of 'youth', albeit somewhat younger than the DCI 'youth'' but the Little League is comprised of 'youth'; some still in the learning stages and others being the best of the best in the world at their particular activity. In 2012, many, many 'youth' baseball teams (from around the United States and Other Countries) competed in the qualifying rounds for the Little League World Series. Eight teams from the United States and Eight Teams from other countries qualified through those rounds. Then in the elimination play-off series we ended up with the 'youth' team from Tokyo playing the 'youth' team from Goodlettsville, TN and Tokyo taking home the 2012 Little League World Series Title. Also in 2012 many 'youth' drum corps from around the United States, along with two from Canada, competed in the summer qualifying rounds. Twelve of those 'youth' corps made it to Finals via elimination through Prelims and Semi-Finals. Blue Devils, a 'youth' corps, then became the 2012 DCI World Champion. So, DCI and the Little League World Series have way, way, way more in common than you want them to have; I say 'want' because you want DCI to be what it is not supposed to be (an outlet for just a few egotistical corps directors). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 ####, I gave Stu props Jeff: Thanks for the ####; that made me chuckle (and I needed that today) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) In 2012, many, many 'youth' baseball teams (from around the United States and Other Countries) competed in the qualifying rounds for the Little League World Series. Eight teams from the United States and Eight Teams from other countries qualified through those rounds. Then in the elimination play-off series we ended up with the 'youth' team from Tokyo playing the 'youth' team from Goodlettsville, TN and Tokyo taking home the 2012 Little League World Series Title. Out of curiosity, how many of the teams in the LL World Series also play against NCAA Division 1 college baseball teams? Edited March 26, 2013 by Slingerland 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) Out of curiosity, how many of the teams in the LL World Series also play against NCAA Division 1 college baseball teams? Out of curiosity, how many little league instructors and coaches are paid ? Also, out of curiosity how many NCAA college Division 1 baseball players pay their schools for the right to participate and to represent their teams ? Edited March 26, 2013 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_demello Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) DCI is comprised of the best in the world at a particular activity. What confuses the brand is that there are also groups with an educational mission lumped in with the same brand. This is where I have to disagree with you, Daniel. There are only a few "best in the world" corps, just like there are only a few "best in the world car drivers", or a few "best in the world skiers". If every corps were "best in the world", then the entire audience would show up when to the gates open to watch all the corps. As it is, in most every drum corps show, a great number of people don't show up until "the good corps" are on. This was true 30 years ago, and it's true today. There are "the best" corps, and there are "up and coming corps" ... always has been, and always will be. IMHO, the "brand" of DCI should be (and I expect a lot of flack from this): "Music in Motion". DCI's brand of "Marching Musics Major League" is trying to "ride" on someone else's brand. Probably the worst thing you want to do to differentiate yourself from other brands. I do appreciate the Baseball analogy: In baseball there is a Major League, and the Minor League. There is a farm system of A, AA, and AAA levels. And there are college leagues down to the Little League. It's strange that the DCI brand promotes in print "Major League", and in practice tries to promote equality among corps that are NOT equal. Each level DOES have it's fan base, and has it's own (adjusted) rules, and has it's own circuit. There are traveling leagues, and local leagues. The Drum Corps activity could learn from this. As far as education ... DCI flopped with "OnCue". There is NO educational component to DCI. Period. No Brass camps, Drum Major Camps, Percussion Clinics. Nada. There is nothing educational about DCI, and it should be either 1) removed from their mission, or 2) really implement it. I do believe that there is a major educational component to each and every Drum Corps, with each Drum Corps providing a different level of education depending on their abilities. (NOTE: I'm not saying that each drum corps isn't good at the "camaraderie" component, but differ in the "level of education" components) My 2 centavos, Daniel! Edited March 26, 2013 by jeff_demello 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) Out of curiosity, how many little league instructors and coaches are paid ? Also, out of curiosity how many NCAA college Division 1 baseball players pay their schools for the right to participate and to represent their teams ? A lot of them, actually. Baseball scholarships aren't nearly as plentiful or as generous as basketball rides. Are you suggesting that no one working with an Open Class or lower ranked WC corps is being paid? The numbers would indicate that they are. The numbers would also indicate that the available resources for those corps, and the average age and experience of their members would dictate that in an ideal world, they wouldn't have to try and beat performers who were both older then them, and organizations whose size and budgets are significantly larger. Edited March 26, 2013 by Slingerland 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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