kickhaltsforlife Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Do we really have to go back to the whole WW thing again with Mike? We are all regulars... if you have any sort of memory you know Mike's opinion.. and it's been discussed and debated enough. It was just a matter of time before the topic got to this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Color Guards do not guard the colors, and there is a lot more to percussion than drums, and horns have not been bugles for decades. I don't care what they'd call it. I am a fan of DCI and DCA; I only see such a thing happening if the powers-that-be thought it necessary to the survival of the activity. Until then, it is just an academic exercise. if I were King of the Forest, I would create a distinct 'anything goes' division, where any instrumentation and any size ensemble is permitted to compete. And I would personally support any Marching Band unit that decided to use woodwinds to go out on their own and start a Marching Band Association where there would be an " anything goes " Division within that organization too. I would absolutely be in 100% agreement for them to leave and do whatever Marching Band instrumentation that fits their fancy there too. I would not want any such unit to be constrained in their Marching Band quest by being restricted with what Drum Corps International does in the realm of " Drum & Bugle Corps ", and there is no way we'd want them to use this moniker to describe themselves should such a Marching Band think that they can stay competing in " Drum Corps International " with flutes, trombones, saxophones, etc and the like. So I'm with you that such a unit would need to leave DCI and develop their " anything goes " division anywhere they want outside of the DCI organization's Drum Corps competition arena. Edited April 1, 2013 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 And I would personally support any Marching Band unit that decided to use woodwinds to go out on their own and start a Marching Band Association where there would be an " anything goes " Division within that organization too. I would absolutely be in 100% agreement for them to leave and do whatever Marching Band instrumentation that fits their fancy there too. I would not want any such unit to be constrained in their Marching Band quest by being restricted with what Drum Corps International does in the realm of " Drum & Bugle Corps ", and there is no way we'd want them to use this moniker to describe themselves should such a Marching Band think that they can stay competing in " Drum Corps International " with flutes, trombones, saxophones, etc and the like. So I'm with you that such a unit would need to leave DCI and develop their " anything goes " division anywhere they want outside of the DCI organization's Drum Corps competition arena. Actually, I'd prefer DCI start the new division, and integrate it into the tour schedule, so we are not in agreement on that...so what else is new! Just for Jason, we should stop...he doesn't like it when the dreaded topic of WW comes up. I didn't start it, nor did you, but whenever I pipe up with my opinion, he doesn't like it. So I think we should stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Actually, I'd prefer DCI start the new division, and integrate it into the tour schedule, so we are not in agreement on that...so what else is new! :tongue:/>/>/> True. We are certainly not in agreement where you'd like Drum Corps International to start up a separate division for Marching Bands so that they can use flutes, saxophones, slide trombones, or whatever and an " anything goes " instrumentation and what not there in DCI. I don't see Drum Corps International settting up a separate division for Marching Bands with flutes, saxophones, trombones, etc either. These Marching Bands already have their own organization and doing what you like there already. Edited April 1, 2013 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 True. We are certainly not in agreement where you'd like Drum Corps International to start up a separate division for Marching Bands so that they can use flutes, saxophones, slide trombones, or whatever and an " anything goes " instrumentation and what not there in DCI. I don't see Drum Corps International settting up a separate division for Marching Bands with flutes, saxophones, trombones, etc either. These Marching Bands already have their own organization and doing what you like there already. You're probably right, DCI won't set up a separate division to be any-instrumentation, but my hunch is that the Seven will push to be able to do so in the TOC division because at least one of them has been pushing that direction for over a decade. And 200+ members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Mike, I don't have a problem with you stating your opinion... I'm just tired of the debate that happens every time you state it. The horse has been dead and has been being beat for quite some time. Seriously. Give it a rest. And yes... I'm not always the biggest fan of your opinions... not many of us are But we enjoy the conversation. I am just personally tired of even glancing at a woodwind debate. And I might not be that active in this thread but I am reading it quite often. So when that popped up I wanted to gouge out my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) You're probably right, DCI won't set up a separate division to be any-instrumentation, but my hunch is that the Seven will push to be able to do so in the TOC division because at least one of them has been pushing that direction for over a decade. And 200+ members. I'm not sure they'd be allowed to use unauthorized instrumentation in DCI. And such a proposal to utilize slide trombones, saxophones, flutes..... would have to be approved by DCI membership. And the votes are not there to do Marching Band instrumentation in Drum Corps International Competition. DCI should require any unit that uses soxophones, flutes, slide trombones, etc to leave DCI too. I'd be fully on board if sch unit... any unit.. was shown the door too, and I would not miss that Marching Band at all. So if one or more of the 7 want to trnsform themselves into a Marching Band with woodwinds, its fine with me. Good luck, and good riddance. Edited April 1, 2013 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) Well, I guess you are correct. Your figures aren't exaggerated, they are completely fabricated. Since you have difficulty reading, I'll make it simple...your math is WAY off. My evidence: we did it in the $4500 range. Family, donations,sponsors, car-pooling...whatever it took. Also marching in an SEC band the following fall from far less than an "entitled" or independently wealthy background. The last I checked, that sounds to be nearly the very definition of the term "industrious." I am not dogging on ya; I am actually glad that you are in a family living situation which allowed you to be 'industrious' in securing $4,500. Nevertheless, I did do the math correct. A former private student of mine was in a HS BOA band with $1500/yr dues; that student also auditioned for and made a WC corps while still in HS, and with the combined 'flights' to and from the camps (no WC corps existed within driving distance without him missing Thursday and Monday of school), the corps audition fees, and the corps camp fees along with incidental money needed while out on tour, the 'total' cost of all combined (HS and corps) was nearly $8,000 for a single year. And on top of that, are you saying that even your $4500 scenario would be possible for 'industrious' inner city youth; not in a million years. And I really, really, really, bet that you are not an 'inner' city kid; so your $4,500, even if garnered by being 'industrious', does not seem to be a rich issue to you; but I guarantee an inner city kid would hold a vastly different opinion. Ergo, DCI is nowhere near the way it was when there were 400+ 'Local' corps to accommodate those with little capital or family resources to be 'industrious' Edited April 2, 2013 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 You're probably right, DCI won't set up a separate division to be any-instrumentation, SoundSport is a 'DCI' activity that is a separate division which allows any instrumentation, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I've had that thought in the past too, and it would be nice, but your gordian knot there is how to extricate drum corps from the perception of it being "marching band" without totally alienating the thousands of band directors out there the corps have been seeking as partners. If you say "drum corps is much cooler than band", then you've basically dissed the band community. If you say "but there's no woodwinds!", you've drawn a distinction without a difference, at least to the majority of audiences who couldn't differentiate between a trumpet and an oboe. It's in uniform, it's on a football fields, they have marching drums, it's a band. I suspect there are some changes that could be made in the products that would read to a general audience, but none of them would be cheap, since they would involve MORE equipment and technology, not less. Again, thinking back to the days when we marched, was there dissonance between marching band and drum corps? Was drum corps trying to "court" marching band directors? I contend the answer is "No" they weren't, because most band directors didn't want their kids to become enamored with drum corps even while many (mine included) took busloads of kids to see shows. The point is this question: Is it imperative that drum corps "court" HS band directors and/or be at all concerned about what band directors think of what drum corps is doing? If drum corps focuses on being a different step above HS band, and it's worthwhile in itself TO THE KIDS MARCHING, they will come because their kids will ask them to come. Your analogy is similar to the Seven's belief that they must look, smell, and feel like band in order to attract kids and, therefor, drum corps must court the band directors in order to get kids to tryouts. I disagree with the premise entirely. Band directors have no power to dictate to kids what they can and can't do during their summer. If drum corps focuses on being different, and better/more challenging/"a step up" from HS band, it will attract the kids. Drum corps doesn't need to appeal to band directors, as the Seven contend. They need to appeal to kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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