Liahona Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 As it applies to communication that is the key in the realm of audience enjoyment and engagement within marching show concepts. Allow me to say up front that I am not advocating shows which exhibit low intellectual feeble-mindedness; but what I am stating that to really communicate to the largest part of the audience using the vehicle of a marching show concept it does need to be rather simplistic. Examples: a) The 2011 Cadets show 'Between Angles and Demons' was very effective in audience communication due to it being simplistic in communication, whereas to really understand the 2012 Blue Devils show 'Cabaret Voltaire' one really needed to have a general historical knowledge of the Dada movement and the significance of the venue name; b) The 2007 Regiment show 'Spartacus' was also very effective in audience communication due to it being simplistic in communication, whereas the 2005 Cadets show 'The Zone - Dreamscapes in Four Parts with a Door' still escapes me due to the esoteric complexity. Moreover, since the judges are well versed on the show concepts by Finals (either through their own education or through the transmission of show communication minutia via the corps staff) the judges are on a higher level of understanding that most of the paying audience. And in my opinion, that is where a disconnect has occurred in the modern world of DCI because many corps staff are now writing complex communicative shows for the judges and the score impact instead of simplistic communicative shows for the audience and the entertainment aspect. I agree with this sentiment as well... Obviously it's all about filling the seats. I think there should be some experimental expansion into other aspects of more than just "the show". That is focus on not just the experience of the performance, but focus on what goes into a performance. I think if more mainstream viewers knew what was going on behind the scenes, they may appreciate "the show" more. I have found that when people say, I know what I like, it really means I like what I know, so you have to help people to get to know something that maybe they didn't have the opportunity to be exposed to previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 See, once we get into "soothsaying" mode, the argument starts lacking all credibility. DCI has reported that numbers at their events are up; numbers for the DCI Theater experience have steadily risen throughout the years. There is little/no indication that DCI is alienating fans at this point other than grumpy internet posts. Yes, more fans would always be great, but if there are zero indications that fans are leaving the activity, maybe things are actually OK the way they are currently from an individual corps design spectrum. Please lets not forget that DCI started a campaign no more than a year and half ago to research how to get dci corps to be more fan engaging. They have tested new judging criteria, named an Artistic Director (Michael C.), sent out fan survey's....etc. There have been podcasts and online videos discussing the 'fan engage' issue as well. So, if all is well and good...why all these efforts to get corps and fans on the same page? Ok...maybe regional and major event show attendance is up...great. How is attendance at the local show level? Up ? Down ? There are a lot more local shows on the tour schedule than focus events..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 (edited) I never base my own enjoyment on what the individual judges think in their ranking and rating to the standards they are directed to use in each caption/subcaption We agree on this then. This was my central point all along above, ie that what placements judges have for Corps in competition oftentimes bears very little resemblance to what audiences enjoy the most. Your highlight corps show of the year from last season for you finished 10th with the judges. For many others, their favorite show of the year finished 20th with the judges. My favorite show of the year, the highlight of the year for me, was neither the 20th place Corps, the 10th place Corps, nor the 1st place Corps. My enjoyment of Corps shows I believe it like yours and most others, ie it has little relationship to what the judges do. Edited May 10, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 We agree on this then. This was my central point all along above, ie that what placements judges have for Corps in competition oftentimes bears very little resemblamnce to what audiences " enjoy " most. Your highlight corps show of the year from last season for you finished 10th. For many others, their favorite show of the year did not finish in the TOP 17. Yup, we do agree...and I don't see any problem at all with the above attitude...IMO there is nothing to 'fix' in that. The two times the Cadets have had my favorite shows in DCI in a given have happened to be the two times they have won since 2000, but in all other years "somebody else" was my personal favorite, and it spans a number of corps that placed in all sorts of positions by champs, both in and not-in finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 (edited) Yup, we do agree...and I don't see any problem at all with the above attitude...IMO there is nothing to 'fix' in that. The two times the Cadets have had my favorite shows in DCI in a given have happened to be the two times they have won since 2000, but in all other years "somebody else" was my personal favorite, and it spans a number of corps that placed in all sorts of positions by champs, both in and not-in finals. Exactly. You and me are like most others in the national audiences in this respect too. It is rare indeed for the national audience favorite corps show to likewise be crowned the best by the DCI judging community in that given year. We all seem to agree with this dynamic that takes place most seasons too. Whether this is a healthy dynamic for an activity that says that it wants to grow the size of audiences is of course where there might be some disagreement. Edited May 10, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 agreed. I think if anything needs to change on the sheets, it's the weight of performance vs the weight of demand Is it 50/50 now? Do you want performance to outweigh demand, or do you think the demand currently outweighs performance on the sheets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I agree with this sentiment as well... Obviously it's all about filling the seats. I think there should be some experimental expansion into other aspects of more than just "the show". That is focus on not just the experience of the performance, but focus on what goes into a performance. I think if more mainstream viewers knew what was going on behind the scenes, they may appreciate "the show" more. I have found that when people say, I know what I like, it really means I like what I know, so you have to help people to get to know something that maybe they didn't have the opportunity to be exposed to previously. There are two different issues here which must be separated: 1) Utilizing the drum corps activity to allow people an increase in awareness of new source material (the music) that maybe they didn't have the opportunity to be exposed to previously; and 2) The transmission of that new source material (the communication) to the audience through the vehicle of show design. If you really break down the shows that generally 'do work' for the audience compared to those that generally 'do not work' for the audience one will find that it does not matter if the audience has been previously exposed to the source material; in fact (in reference to #1) exposure to new source material in of itself is a rather great thing because many people have expanded their listening tastes due to being exposed to new material via drum corps. However, (in reference to #2) the shows that 'do work' for the audience are only those in which the corps staff communicate that new information in a simplistic manner through show concept design without attempting to go very deep into the transfer of academic intellectualism (i.e. 'communication' of new source material to the audience through show design going no deeper than righteous vs. evil, or love vs. hate is what works) Why? a) Because academic intellectual information cannot be transmitted effectively to a mass audience in an 11 min. show using visual tools of drill movement and props (this is where judges have the higher knowledge due to closely interacting with corps design staff throughout the season); and b) The audience members are not paying to go to an academic environment and garner increased knowledge through the deep process of cerebral thought, they are paying to flat get entertained just like attending any other musical/visual event such as Blue Man, Stomp, U2, Opera, Symphony, etc...). 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 (edited) Is it 50/50 now? Do you want performance to outweigh demand, or do you think the demand currently outweighs performance on the sheets? Hypothetical question for you: Corps 1 does a very lush chart impeccably well (mind you it is very difficult for wind players to sustain long lush notes in a high quality manner over the period of an entire chart), the winds play with great intonation, great articulation, the battery, pit, and guard do some very interesting things in double time to add impact, the entire corps has great visual movement, bringing everyone listening and watching to an internal bliss that they have never attained before; Corps 2 does an incredibly intricate mixed meter chart at 208 bmp, they also have great intonation, great articulation, great visual movement, causing everyone to be completely amazed at the feat. Both corps perform and execute at the 'exact' same level. In the world of the DCI judging sheets today do both corps tie; does corps 1 win; or does corps 2 win? Edited May 10, 2013 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 There are two different issues here which must be separated: 1) Utilizing the drum corps activity to allow people an increase in awareness of new source material (the music) that maybe they didn't have the opportunity to be exposed to previously; and 2) The transmission of that new source material (the communication) to the audience through the vehicle of show design. If you really break down the shows that generally 'do work' for the audience compared to those that generally 'do not work' for the audience one will find that it does not matter if the audience has been previously exposed to the source material; in fact (in reference to #1) exposure to new source material in of itself is a rather great thing because many people have expanded their listening tastes due to being exposed to new material via drum corps. However, (in reference to #2) the shows that 'do work' for the audience are only those in which the corps staff communicate that new information in a simplistic manner through show concept design without attempting to go very deep into the transfer of academic intellectualism (i.e. 'communication' of new source material to the audience through show design going no deeper than righteous vs. evil, or love vs. hate is what works) Why? a) Because academic intellectual information cannot be transmitted effectively to a mass audience in an 11 min. show using visual tools of drill movement and props (this is where judges have the higher knowledge due to closely interacting with corps design staff throughout the season); and b) The audience members are not paying to go to an academic environment and garner increased knowledge through the deep process of cerebral thought, they are paying to flat get entertained just like attending any other musical/visual event such as Blue Man, Stomp, U2, Opera, Symphony, etc...). Stu - have to say, I think this is spot on. :thumbup:/> I know Bawker has said the same things previously as well, as have others, and I agree with all of you. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Ok...maybe regional and major event show attendance is up...great. How is attendance at the local show level? Up ? Down ? There are a lot more local shows on the tour schedule than focus events..... There are SO MANY factors having to do with attendance that are out of DCI's control, as far as marketing and such. While we have little/no data to see IF shows attendance is also up or down, I'd prefer to stick to the relevant facts. DCI-tracked attendance = up: total attendance is up across all of the DCI sponsored shows, attendance is up at the movie theater things. That much we do know, and based on those known factors perhaps we are talking more about "I don't like corps X's style, corps X is winning, DCI needs to change design trends" than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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