JimF-LowBari Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) And the shows were much easier. No offense to those who marched then... None taken and was easier when majority of the corps lived closer as drill started a LOT earlier than today. When I was away at college and came back for weekend camps it was so much better when the people around me knew the drill that I had missed. Someone would just walk with me and yell when to do something. Brought up the idea of shows getting too complex for the time availible to teach about 10 years ago when I came back. Cadets and Crossmen were at a pre-season exhibiton at Gettysburg and neither had a complete drill. Problem then was rain killing outdoor time but started a thread on the subject. Seems that having top of the line complex shows and having complete shows when something hits the fan (or not hits) are mutaully exclusive. Edited June 14, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOReason Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 While I understand the arguments on both sides (somewhat), I have to agree with Bush Dad on this one. I find it somewhat ironic that the DCI corps aren't even out yet and for some reason DCA corps are expected to be at a higher level of completion, rehearsing on the weekends than the DCI corps, rehearsing every day. Granted, if you sign up for a show in mid June, you know what your getting into. I get that. Understanding of course that every DCI World Class finalist, or aspiring DCI World Class finalist, has a completed show at this moment and would likely smoke every corps in Wildwood, including Bucs. And they are complete and at a decent level of clean, while dealing with infinitely more difficult programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 And the shows were much easier. No offense to those who marched then... Like Jim said... no offense at all, Geoff. You're right. But it seemed that... back then... we (the corps from that era) almost felt like a failure if we didn't have a complete package ready at the first show. (Of course, we made changes during the season, cleaned a lot of stuff up and got better... but the product was reasonably "in shape" by the first show.) I know in Sun, in 1980, coming off two DCA titles and a third-place finish in 1979, we basically knew we were in for a rougher-than-usual season when we didn't finish our drill until only a couple of days before the first show on Memorial Day weekend. Usually, we'd have the entire package finished at least a weekend or two before. In 1980, we were out of our comfort zone. (Heh... those who marched in that corps that year know we were in a variety of "zones" that entire summer. Stories for another day. ) No matter what the era, or type of show, it all comes down to preparation. A corps knows, months in advance, when the season begins. It is then up to a given corps to make every reasonable effort to put a complete package on the field at the start of the season. People are paying good money to see those shows; they deserve a good product... if there isn't one, those fans might not come back. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) Understanding of course that every DCI World Class finalist, or aspiring DCI World Class finalist, has a completed show at this moment and would likely smoke every corps in Wildwood, including Bucs. And they are complete and at a decent level of clean, while dealing with infinitely more difficult programs. Move-in camps certainly help them do that. But your point is well-taken. It seems that not too many years ago, there were more "unfinished products" at early-season DCI shows than there are now. Kudos to the current DCI corps for doing their best to put a complete package out as early as possible. Edited June 14, 2013 by Fran Haring 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I know in Sun, in 1980, coming off two DCA titles and a third-place finish in 1979, we basically knew we were in for a rougher-than-usual season when we didn't finish our drill until only a couple of days before the first show on Memorial Day weekend. 1978 IIRC was a horrible Spring for weather in the Northeast. Think if it rained only one day in the week it was the day corps needed to be outside to do drill. Only time I remember working on really bad sections of the drill at Danville which was the Memorial Day Saturday exhibiton show. Sure as hades there was a hail storm in the middle of practice which made things awful tense, as Fran said, if drill wasn't finished it reflected badly on the corps. Thought one or two corps pulled out of early season show because of this but found out recently I was wrong on one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Detweiler Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Understanding of course that every DCI World Class finalist, or aspiring DCI World Class finalist, has a completed show at this moment and would likely smoke every corps in Wildwood, including Bucs. And they are complete and at a decent level of clean, while dealing with infinitely more difficult programs. No offense, but I know for a fact that there are more than one finalist or aspiring finalist from last year that only have 3/4 of their show on at this point. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 A few points as I(still somewhat of a noob) see them: 1- Not sure if it alternates, but Wildwood is a week earlier than it was last year. Then a week off, then 1 show(Bridgeport), THEN the season kicks in. Technically, yes it is the beginning of the season and the hard line is the corps should be ready, but many corps don't have a show until July 5th. 2- I disagree with discounting the effect that Indoor running into May has on corps. If half your battery cannot make rehearsals because they are competing, it will delay progress. If your recruiting prospects won't come to camps until Indoor is done, it will delay progress. Just because 1 or 2 corps do not seem to have this affect them or found a way around it, it does not mean a rebuilding corps struggling to fill spots, isn't trying to be 100% complete by Wildwood. 3- At least they are showing up and trying to put on the best show they can at the time. 4- I would assume that most people driving or flying in just for this show already know that a few shows won't be complete. Also, while it may look funky to straight up newcomers, the show is during Legion or VFW weekends in Wildwood, and most casual spectators probably are from these crowds anyway and probably just familiar enough with it to understand and not criticize incomplete shows. the indoor excuse is BS. Bucs have many people associated with WGI, TIA, CIA, USBands indoor, etc.....and they get bodies there, and they come out in Wildwood with the framework in place. Every year. I was in Wildwood all weekend in May, I saw many people with Bucs gear on that I know were marching, and were marching or teaching that weekend. And, O'm pretty sure when the corps hits the field tomorrow, you won't be able to tell. Indoor in the NE has been going on for decades. smart corps plan around it and maximize their time. It's only an excuse if you let it be one. Am I coming off as a Bucs homer? Maybe, but you cannot deny the facts. They have every issue every other corps does as far as membership issues, and since 2005, they make it work. Then, all summer, while they deep clean, others are still finishing up before they can even start to deep clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Totally agree. But not every October idea lands in April. The most competitively successful shows I've been a part of were BARELY completed by our first show. It was ugly but we were better off getting the rewrites out of the way sooner rather than later. *shrug* I'm a part of a completely different group under completely different circumstances, so I don't know ... different strokes? Ok, I probably shouldn't have lumped WGI percussion in. Completely different story with guard, though. A group hurting in guard numbers is going to take what they can get after Dayton. Not saying it's a good approach -- far from it -- but lots of corps do it. Agree with the second paragraph. Any group that has hole-fillers in the double digits is setting themselves up for failure. BS on guard too. Look at Bucs. They won't be wandering around the field with equipment tucked under their arms for minutes of the show, and they had people doing indoor until May 4th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 BS on guard too. Look at Bucs. They won't be wandering around the field with equipment tucked under their arms for minutes of the show, and they had people doing indoor until May 4th That's great. They're one of the few groups that actually has a winter rehearsal program for their guard figured out. More groups need to do that. But not every group has their #### figured out. Not every group has a consistent core of staff members year-in/year-out to build a good winter rehearsal program. Hence, some groups wait until April. It happens. I'm not disagreeing with you that a winter rehearsal program is essential. I'm saying that what happens in Buc-land doesn't happen in Everywhere-Else-land ... at least yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNCGQ Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 There have been people living well past 100 years old for quite some time now. No reason you can't either. Sample maximums (or statistical outliers if one chooses to interpret in that manner) aren't a good basis for mass generalizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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