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Have drum corps evolved into bands?


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Thanks, Don, Donny, and Jeff. I see there is some disagreement here, or perhaps a different emphasis on what constitutes difficulty. Donny: do you disagree with Don and Jeff that certain kinds of drumming fundamentals are impossible to play at high speeds? Don, Jeff: would you perhaps concede that playing at such high tempos (not to mention while moving around so much more) is itself a new kind of difficulty that earlier corps couldn't match?* Does anyone disagree with Jeff that the brass parts are in some ways easier now because transferring some music to the pit means there are fewer parts for brass to cover?

*Edit: We once produced a play called Two Pianos, Four Hands, a two-hander written by and for two actors who were also fairly good pianists. It related the experience of two boys who study to become classical pianists, but in the end are not good enough. In one key scene, one of the students, now about college age, seems to the audience to be managing a difficult high-tempo part fairly well, until his instructor asks him to play it much more slowly, and it becomes clear that he's glossing over certain fundamentals. Is that what Don and Jeff have in mind as regards drum rudiments?

yeas . that is what i'm saying. and yes they have created hybred rudiments. what they are i couldn't tell you. i know that for me i could NEVER do what is being done today. i could never play and do the drills they do today. so i guess if you build that into the equation then the difficulty is there. donny doesn't care much of what i think so there will never be any consensus there.

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Why would you say that, Don? That is so untrue. I care what everyone says.

Take it back :huh: LOL...

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Why would you say that, Don? That is so untrue. I care what everyone says.

Take it back huh.gif LOL...

ok.......i take it back. you know how it is donny. it goes waaaay back. it's all good buddy. smile.gif

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As far as the brass scoring goes...better listen to what Crown, Cadets, Devils, Regiment et al...and tell me that it is easier than the stuff we played BITD...NO WAY...I totally disagree with my friend Jeff on this one.

That #### 3rd valve just screwed everything up. :devil:/>

LOL I've played stuff the last few years that I never thought I'd be able to play... even while young. Thank goodness it was only going down the street or standstill. And definitely NOT at 180-200 BPM.... :shutup:

Edited by JimF-LowBari
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I am not buying that ANYTHING is dumbed down at all...the brass books of the top DCI corps are insane with difficulty as are the percussion licks. Don, the 26 rudiments you refer to are the basis for all of the new hybrid rudiments or patterns which would be IMPOSSIBLE for most back in the day that you competed.

The kids are just better conditioned, more talented as a group, and better musicians now in the top groups. You don't have to believe me, but I believe I have seen it first hand. They also have more money that the kids we took in and nurtured into better people through drum corps. We took anyone, and even favored the poorer kids. We took juvenile delinquents and made them productive in society. It is NOT the same game, so we should stop trying to compare it.

We had tremendously talented individual performers in our teams BITD...they now have to audition for a spot. So whereas we taught kids that couldn't play anything when they walked in by rote without music, and perhaps they became great musicians, now you cannot get in the door without significant training.

I don't like all the shows or programming choices, but I do not underestimate what these kids are doing. We dinosaurs should stop player hating on the kids. Most good corps directors MAKE SURE that these kids understand what we did before they were born. These kids get a history lesson, especially in corps like Cavaliers, Boston, Garfield, Scouts, SCV and on.

I will stop making sense now///spry.

DA

This sums it up better than any post I have ever read on the subject. And yes, today's corps are world's apart from their BITD counterparts, but there is still something about knowing that me and my parents could never afford for me to participate AND go to college...and that I likely could not afford both for my kids, that sort of alienates me. And while I can still relate to the skill, designs and competition, I have difficulty relating to the DCI activity.

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I paid my son's dues by working at Pioneer. Whatever he didn't come up with came straight from my pay at the end of the season.

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yeas . that is what i'm saying. and yes they have created hybred rudiments. what they are i couldn't tell you. i know that for me i could NEVER do what is being done today. i could never play and do the drills they do today. so i guess if you build that into the equation then the difficulty is there. donny doesn't care much of what i think so there will never be any consensus there.

This is totally correct. There are 25 standard Americam drum rudiments. All else played are derived from those.

Edited by Piper
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Thanks, Don, Donny, and Jeff. I see there is some disagreement here, or perhaps a different emphasis on what constitutes difficulty. Donny: do you disagree with Don and Jeff that certain kinds of drumming fundamentals are impossible to play at high speeds? Don, Jeff: would you perhaps concede that playing at such high tempos (not to mention while moving around so much more) is itself a new kind of difficulty that earlier corps couldn't match?* Does anyone disagree with Jeff that the brass parts are in some ways easier now because transferring some music to the pit means there are fewer parts for brass to cover?

*Edit: We once produced a play called Two Pianos, Four Hands, a two-hander written by and for two actors who were also fairly good pianists. It related the experience of two boys who study to become classical pianists, but in the end are not good enough. In one key scene, one of the students, now about college age, seems to the audience to be managing a difficult high-tempo part fairly well, until his instructor asks him to play it much more slowly, and it becomes clear that he's glossing over certain fundamentals. Is that what Don and Jeff have in mind as regards drum rudiments?

oh sure visual demand is way higher. and as a result, percussion and brass, has thinned down the notiness of the musical book.

as for the brass/pit stuff, well, more than a few arrangers have stated they do it that way

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Yeah- One of the criticisms I have with some of the peeps out there arranging esp certain moments and culprits in DCI is that they use the brass as a syncopated rinforzando sledgehammer and let anything faster than an eighth note fall on the pit to handle.

Difficulty/Challenge is still high, though because of the physical and mental demands.

Sad fact is with the talent most of those horn lines have, they could be a lot more musical and versatile in terms of the book, if the drill and visual package could allow it.

I think this might be part of why you have so many gripin' DCI fans.

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Yeah- One of the criticisms I have with some of the peeps out there arranging esp certain moments and culprits in DCI is that they use the brass as a syncopated rinforzando sledgehammer and let anything faster than an eighth note fall on the pit to handle.

Difficulty/Challenge is still high, though because of the physical and mental demands.

Sad fact is with the talent most of those horn lines have, they could be a lot more musical and versatile in terms of the book, if the drill and visual package could allow it.

I think this might be part of why you have so many gripin' DCI fans.

I really hope Cadets show is successful then (not 2, the original). They have designed a musical program that is *rich* in tempo variation, and isn't the usual 11 minutes at 200bpm interrupted by one minuted of super slow ballad. They actually spend time at 120, 140 and 160. Extended lengths of time, in a show that is masterfully put together from a musical standpoint. They still have some visual issued, but I'm confident they will work those out.

If Cadets have success with this effort, we might actually see other corps in DCI trying something like this (sans Devils and Crown that already have as well).

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