Stanford Showdown

[wvu80]

Sunday Morning Quarterback: I just viewed the last three corps, and only from the FN, and this was after reading comments on the corps before I watched the video. Here are my thoughts, sometimes questions, ALL from the perspective of a HUGE fan of all three corps.

Crown: Wow, just wow!!! I should stop there, but I won't.

Crown used three full sized DM podiums, which struck me as a bit out of the ordinary. I didn't get the solo bass drummer/guard who rolled that bass drum all over the field. It went away towards the end of the show, with 5 BD's being used backfield. I found the solo BD/Guard work distracting and a bit odd, but otherwise, no big deal. The voice overs didn't enhance my enjoyment of the show, but they weren't horrible either. I can see why the new uniforms are being used, they tend to hide the visual "dirt" that has become a point of criticism the last few years due to the creme unis. I miss the creme unis, so the new ones will just take a little getting used to. I loved the "big moments" the corps created visually and musically, with great sounding chords for which I can stand and applaud. I thought this was drum corps at its finest, with a music driven show with lots of great playing and marching.

Vanguard: I loved this show, and I love the Les Miz music in general, so it was very familiar to me. I also heard Cadets 1989 live. I will not compare the two, as each has to stand on its own. Just for some perspective, one of the criticisms of Cadets 1989 show was that it was "too slow." I wonder if the Vanguard production which is MUCH faster paced, is somewhat a reaction to that. Who knows?

I admit the arrangements were a little hard to get used to, but they weren't bad. I loved how effective the corps used the unis when turning from front to back, and as usual their backfield playing was nonpareil. The mello soloist can really project and this will be a highlight of their production. It looked like there was less pit equipment than the other corps, a good thing in my book. They played great and were no less effective.

Big moments for me were the Vanguard shield (very cool!) and the company front at the end of the show, with a long horizontal line marching L to R, with a smaller, shallow "V" marching R to L across (in front of) the front of the long company front. Good drum corps stuff!

Blue Devils: They have been my favorite corps for the last several years, and I loved last year's show. I think they won for the usual reasons the Devil's win; your horn line has to outplay my hornline, your drums have to be better, and your color guard has to be better, person for person. Devils are the best or within fractions of the best, every year and this year is no different. The incredibly talented members are doing an outstanding job of doing what the staff is asking them to do.

THAT BEING SAID...June shows don't always have that "wow" factor that it sometimes takes a month to produce. Blue Devils did not produce a lot of "wow" moments for me, so I'll reserve judgement on that until later in the season. My only concern that is with a show that has a ton of dissonance, there does not seem to be much resolution built in. I did not like all the visual clutter with the poles. It is very original and has tons of potential, but I found the poles in front in particular "separating" me from the corps in a visual way. I want that direct connection, and least in this first showing I've seen, I don't feel that. Other than that, the show is very original and covers the field from every boundary for most of the show. This is definitely a "big stadium" show, one meant to win a championship on the last night of the season. I look for the staff to make their customary adjustments and re-writes as the season goes on, and when Brandt Crocker is about to announce the last two corps standing on Saturday night in Indianapolis, don't surprised in one of them is the Blue Devils.

Edited June 23, 2013 by wvu80

[BRASSO]

Yep......they can fart, burp, flip off and grunt to their hearts desire!

But I leave them with this challenge (as I have in previous years) "If what they are saying on DCP and in the stands is something they would have the courage to say directly standing in front of the kids on the field looking them in the eye......go ahead and say or do it here and there.....but if not (and only they know this)....shut the #### up!"

Nobody is telling you on here to STFU, so chill out.

This is a discussion board made up of fans. We discuss all manner of the activity, good, bad or indifferent. There is no opinion that is sacrosanct or immune from criticism or praise. What should not be toleranted is any attempt to stifle, or censor legitimate discussion that does not personally attack a poster nor am individual MM. So far, I have seen no personal attack on any MM, nor or any poster, although your post right now, did seem to come close as its telling people to STFU becuse you personally don't like their opinions they express on here. Its only summer marching shows. No MM is in a foxhole here taking rounds of " hate " on an incoming basis that might just have them leave this earth at any moment. So just get a better perspective on things on things and just learn to relax if someone says something you don't personally like. Judges, by their scoring, say things all the time to audiences, and most in the audience just learn to shrug off what these mostly retirees now say or do. Audiences like what they like. Judges like what they like. Both are entitled to say and do what they want.

Edited June 23, 2013 by BRASSO

[ShortAndFast]

You, more than anyone, should understand what's going on here. In fact, I'm a bit befuddled as to your take on this. The crowd wants CC to win, period....it was evident last year and really for some time now....despite their inconsistency. CI is in their favor as I have pointed out, but they have been inconsistent in delivering a complete package....i.e. unique design, guard and percussion. You know this. Last night, from your perspective as a parent and supporter, you see what you need to see. I know, I've been there. You see it as "unmistakeable" from your perspective, others and apparently the adjudicators see it differently and clearly.

Hang in there ol' buddy.....it's coming,,,,but CC is going to have to earn it and not inherit it out of group desire.

You don't find it ... funny ... that Stanford CA is suddenly a hotbed of ABBD sentiments?

[corpsband]

You don't find it ... funny ... that Stanford CA is suddenly a hotbed of ABBD sentiments?

It's funny when we can't see past our own blinders.

It's ok Plan -- we still love you :-)

Anyway this is all a tempest in a teapot. It's the 2nd show of the season :-) I'm just enjoying putting Plan's feet to the coals of his own theory !!

Edited June 23, 2013 by corpsband

[bgg80]

You've been pretty consistent in the past in tying the booing to "East Cost/Mid West" ABBD fans. You (and others) have also consistently pointed out that it *never* happens on the West Coast.

So...was the Stanford crowd flown in from Indy and Allentown?

Or are the WC fans suddenly ABBD?

Just curious.

I'll just throw this out there:

Maybe fans are slightly more knowledgeable than you give them credit for. Maybe they're perceiving -- not subtle differences (because those differences would not motivate people to react strongly) -- but larger, significant differences in excellence and think the panel just plain got it wrong. Crowds can see when things (and performers) hit the ground, things don't go around together, performers struggling to make their dots, forms which hit late or not at all, props which don't move together at all. Granted there's more to the sheets than those things -- but those things ARE on the sheets. And they're pretty fundamental. You don't get credit for sophisticated design if you can't execute it do you?

Both corps are very dirty -- but was there an unmistakable difference in degree?

I'm with you, Plan -- booing is graceless. But your past explanations fall a little short in the face of last night.

A lot of sweeping generalizations. I was there too. It was not a huge chorus of boos. It was limited, but vocal, minority. Mostly younger kids, and at least near me, honestly, folks with Crown attire on.

The recaps are telling. Both corps have a lot of cleaning to do ... it's June for crying out loud! With this panel, all of the content/repertoire/sbst across the captions except for GE Music were won by BD. Some of the execution/performance categories (CG, Brass, GE Music) were won by Crown. So at least last night, the opinion of the panel was that BD had the better design (this is where I think the disagreement lies), and the execution was mixed.

On execution -- You call out making the dots, forms that hit late, props that don't move together ... visual ensemble and proficiency issues. The visual proficiency judge (IMO probably the most opinion-light judging job) on the field certainly didn't see it that way, as this caption had a wider gap (0.5) than any other sub-caption, including percussion. Visual ensemble was a 0.2 gap, with both comp and achievement higher. I honestly agree with both. If anyone watches the BD hornline do their visual warmup, and then how they take that technique onto the field, you'll have a better appreciation for how well this corps marches. I know this goes against the grain, but I think the conventional wisdom that BD marches easy drill, and not very well, is ancient history. I think they are consistently delivering both a difficult drill, and marching performance/technique that is second to none. None better than Todd Ryan+BD talent on this front. Honestly I saw a (slightly) more difficult visual package from BD, with more exposure both as a group and individually. That played out with this panel in their scoring.

Of course -- as soon as a different panel judges these shows, everything may flip around again. :) That's how close I think these two corps are to each other. I will admit that I only got the chills once .. it was Crown's opener. Really a excellent show. I think/hope the top 2 (3?) could have the tightest gap at finals ever. I miss the days when any of the top 3 could win. I think it was 1983 when SCV won semis with BD and Garfield tying (all had 91s) and then Garfield wins finals, BD 2, SCV 3. That would be good drama!

[CloudFuel]

Holy west coast inflation!

[N.E. Brigand]

I leave them with this challenge (as I have in previous years): "If what they are saying on DCP and in the stands is something they would have the courage to say directly standing in front of the kids on the field looking them in the eye ... go ahead and say or do it here and there ... but if not (and only they know this) ... shut the #### up!"

Well, I don't think anyone posting here is going to tell the BD members that they stink, because no one here feels that way. Do you really want people going up to BD members and saying, "You show enormous talent on the field. It's a shame your design staff is trying to drive away the audience"? (Which is what I take to be the central message of most of the complaints.)

[flammaster]

Crown took a VERY long time to set up and with all that equipment seems like a logistical nightmare. where do they store all that extra stuff?

[corpsband]

Crown took a VERY long time to set up and with all that equipment seems like a logistical nightmare. where do they store all that extra stuff?

Under the bus seats :-)

[2000Cadet]

Under the bus seats :-)

The food truck.