icecubeguy Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Whatever happened to Archer Epler? 1984 seemed to be a turning point toward a really cool competitive corps. College kids were talking about it and many thought 1985 would have been a great year. 81-84 seemed to see the corps getting better and better. I think 83 they won drums at a couple of shows. The horn line seemed to also to improve......Rich Templin drill I think on 84 - Ray Fallon in 80-83 and I think Red Winzer in 84....... Just wanted to see what happened and start a new thread. Why can't we get some of these corps back on the field of competition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Whatever happened to Archer Epler? 1984 seemed to be a turning point toward a really cool competitive corps. College kids were talking about it and many thought 1985 would have been a great year. 81-84 seemed to see the corps getting better and better. I think 83 they won drums at a couple of shows. The horn line seemed to also to improve......Rich Templin drill I think on 84 - Ray Fallon in 80-83 and I think Red Winzer in 84....... Just wanted to see what happened and start a new thread. Why can't we get some of these corps back on the field of competition? There are more than a dozen reasons for what you're describing. I'll offer one perspective - there are many more that are at least equally true. By the time Archie hit the field in 1981 for DCA competition, the corps was essentially an Alumni Corps trying to compete. We had players in their late 50s and early 60s on the field, but were starting to introduce much younger people to the corps as well. Missing finals in 1981 was a little tough, but not daunting, and going into 1982 was a rush. The corps was finding a sound and an identity that looked backwards to who it had been and forward to what it could become. 9th place in 1982 was pretty much a rush. The guard was young and the drum line was talented - both sections were very well taught and very well written. The brass line was still in transition from the Alumni Corps to a straight up DCA corps, but making strides. The show was pretty accessible and the whole package was a labor of love. Here's the part that's tough for me - I think that in a lot of ways the reason the corps didn't move up in the ranks in 1983 is that I completely blew it as a combination Show Coordinator, Brass Arranger, Brass Caption head. The show wasn't well put together and some really bad decisions on my part upset a lot of the staff chemistry. By mid-season I was out and by 1984 Red Winsor had taken over steering the brass line. The corps was (by then) a little smaller, and it seemed to me from the outside looking in that a number of the former Alumni Corps members saw 3 years in 9th place as being stuck, trapped, or perhaps slotted and lost some of the energy that had put the corps out there to begin with. Can't say enough about the early drum staff of Billy Kaufman and Eric Landis which transitioned in Dale Adair. These guys knew how to put together a DCA percussion program and would have, could have, should have been successful for years. The guard was great, and Donna ?Borreno? (forgive me - it's 20 years ago) inspired them to become even better - I think that the guard would have sustained beyond 1984. We had forced an uncomfortable partnership in the visual caption that stifled some of what was happening there, but I'm sure over time that would have worked through. The brass show for 1983 was not well put together, with Walk Him Up the Stairs, Spain, and maybe the worst piece of music ever programmed, Sparkle by Earth Wind and Fire. Awful. All in all those years were pretty neat as we accomplished something thought pretty unlikely. I'm not sure but have any other Alumni Corps cracked the top 10 in DCA since? In all the years I worked after 1983 I never even thought about Coordinating a show again. It was a bad way to learn that I had been promoted to something I lacked the talent to excel at, or even be adequate at. OK - that's my take on the early '80s Archer - Epler. One of my fondest proudest memories, and one of my saddest feelings of failure, all within a couple of years of each other. Edited July 1, 2013 by rayfallon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I'm not sure but have any other Alumni Corps cracked the top 10 in DCA since? Kilties are the only one that come to mind ... I first saw them perform at the Plymouth show in 97 or 98 as an Alumni corps ... not sure the first year they actually competed as a Sr. in DCM/DCA :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icecubeguy Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 Ray - That was very insightful and brutally honest. I enjoyed the corps from the outside looking in. I was a student at West Chester. I seem to remember watching the corps at a high school band competition at Plymouth Whitemsrsh HS in Pennsylvania. I think it may have been in 84........three weeks after finals. It did a lot to recruit for the potential 85 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbalaya Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Thanks for sharing my friend......many good individuals in those corps, but IMHO, it hadn't quite jelled.....(it was Donna Borelli, I think)....a lot of the horn players were excellent and most had a very good work ethic....percussion was 'smokin'.....don't know if the psychology of 9th place had an effect, I can speak to that because of 1964 after the Miami debacle at '63 nationals.....a whole lot of tears shed and broken hearts...coming back as an alumni corps in '75 we had that 'mentality' that 'OK, we need to get the 'essence' or 'charisma' back. In 3 years with a lot of help from a lot of people, Archie was back on the field in exhibition at the 'Dream' the only alumni corps to do so.....from '78 forward many strides were made and a few more competitions at 'clap' shows, but still as an 'alumni' corps.....'81 was a pivotal year with the decision to return to DCA (Archie being one of the founding corps).....you've touched on what happened going forward.......many tales to tell, many opinions, many decisions Jim There are more than a dozen reasons for what you're describing. I'll offer one perspective - there are many more that are at least equally true. By the time Archie hit the field in 1981 for DCA competition, the corps was essentially an Alumni Corps trying to compete. We had players in their late 50s and early 60s on the field, but were starting to introduce much younger people to the corps as well. Missing finals in 1981 was a little tough, but not daunting, and going into 1982 was a rush. The corps was finding a sound and an identity that looked backwards to who it had been and forward to what it could become. 9th place in 1982 was pretty much a rush. The guard was young and the drum line was talented - both sections were very well taught and very well written. The brass line was still in transition from the Alumni Corps to a straight up DCA corps, but making strides. The show was pretty accessible and the whole package was a labor of love. Here's the part that's tough for me - I think that in a lot of ways the reason the corps didn't move up in the ranks in 1983 is that I completely blew it as a combination Show Coordinator, Brass Arranger, Brass Caption head. The show wasn't well put together and some really bad decisions on my part upset a lot of the staff chemistry. By mid-season I was out and by 1984 Red Winsor had taken over steering the brass line. The corps was (by then) a little smaller, and it seemed to me from the outside looking in that a number of the former Alumni Corps members saw 3 years in 9th place as being stuck, trapped, or perhaps slotted and lost some of the energy that had put the corps out there to begin with. Can't say enough about the early drum staff of Billy Kaufman and Eric Landis which transitioned in Dale Adair. These guys knew how to put together a DCA percussion program and would have, could have, should have been successful for years. The guard was great, and Donna ?Borreno? (forgive me - it's 20 years ago) inspired them to become even better - I think that the guard would have sustained beyond 1984. We had forced an uncomfortable partnership in the visual caption that stifled some of what was happening there, but I'm sure over time that would have worked through. The brass show for 1983 was not well put together, with Walk Him Up the Stairs, Spain, and maybe the worst piece of music ever programmed, Sparkle by Earth Wind and Fire. Awful. All in all those years were pretty neat as we accomplished something thought pretty unlikely. I'm not sure but have any other Alumni Corps cracked the top 10 in DCA since? In all the years I worked after 1983 I never even thought about Coordinating a show again. It was a bad way to learn that I had been promoted to something I lacked the talent to excel at, or even be adequate at. OK - that's my take on the early '80s Archer - Epler. One of my fondest proudest memories, and one of my saddest feelings of failure, all within a couple of years of each other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKF Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Whatever happened to Archer Epler? 1984 seemed to be a turning point toward a really cool competitive corps. College kids were talking about it and many thought 1985 would have been a great year. 81-84 seemed to see the corps getting better and better. I think 83 they won drums at a couple of shows. The horn line seemed to also to improve......Rich Templin drill I think on 84 - Ray Fallon in 80-83 and I think Red Winzer in 84....... Just wanted to see what happened and start a new thread. Why can't we get some of these corps back on the field of competition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKF Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Whatever happened to Archer Epler? 1984 seemed to be a turning point toward a really cool competitive corps. College kids were talking about it and many thought 1985 would have been a great year. 81-84 seemed to see the corps getting better and better. I think 83 they won drums at a couple of shows. The horn line seemed to also to improve......Rich Templin drill I think on 84 - Ray Fallon in 80-83 and I think Red Winzer in 84....... Just wanted to see what happened and start a new thread. Why can't we get some of these corps back on the field of competition? I was really excited about Archie when they returned to competition in the early 80's. They seemed to be making progress from 81-83 but the 84 corps, in spite of new uni's and better brass charts, just seemed to lack the inner fire needed to move up in DCA. As for getting some of these old corps back on the competition field, that's a tough problem to solve. In the northeast U.S. junior corps are nearly extinct. There seems to be fewer people who want to come into the activity and the drumcorps veteran population is aging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Kilties are the only one that come to mind ... I first saw them perform at the Plymouth show in 97 or 98 as an Alumni corps ... not sure the first year they actually competed as a Sr. in DCM/DCA :-) Kilties competed at the DCA show in Cumberland, MD, in 1995. They first made the trip to DCA championship weekend in 1997. They made DCA Finals in 1998... and again in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Kilties competed at the DCA show in Cumberland, MD, in 1995. They first made the trip to DCA championship weekend in 1997. They made DCA Finals in 1998... and again in 2011. Wow ... guess I'm totally off on this ... thought they were announced as an Alumni corps in Plymouth when I saw them ... oh well ... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I was really excited about Archie when they returned to competition in the early 80's. They seemed to be making progress from 81-83 but the 84 corps, in spite of new uni's and better brass charts, just seemed to lack the inner fire needed to move up in DCA. As for getting some of these old corps back on the competition field, that's a tough problem to solve. In the northeast U.S. junior corps are nearly extinct. There seems to be fewer people who want to come into the activity and the drumcorps veteran population is aging. Don't want to drag this off-topic, but on your point of junior corps extinction in the Northeast I think that the 7th Regiment story is noteworthy. They have made strides each year and this year are fielding 40+ horns and seem to be doing well in competition. No one can predict the future, but as numbers in the NE seem to be dwindling this team seems to be bucking the trend with a solid growth plan and a good vision both of who they are and who they would like to become. OK, back to the topic ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.