The Color Guard Thread

[Guard lover]

Cavies 02*

Edited July 5, 2013 by Guard lover

[Guardguy89]

All,

a perfect "20" doesn't mean that the performance was perfect. It simply means that relative to the competition they maxed out the sheets.

BD has some of the most intricate complex equipment / body work out there, but I do feel that their legacy affords them some leeway and latitudes from the judging community that other programs don't necessarily get.

Later,

Mike

[saxfreq1128]

All,

a perfect "20" doesn't mean that the performance was perfect. It simply means that relative to the competition they maxed out the sheets.

Of course not! But even then... even then... BD should not be getting perfect 20s. Relative to Crown, especially, BD should not be getting maxed out scores in guard. I don't disagree with the guard titles these last 5 or whatever years, but really, what's so bad about a more realistic 19.7-19.9?

[saxfreq1128]

Totally agree. Overgeneralized of course - but very valid point.

BD is immersed in dance, performance and theatrics and has downplayed the use of traditional equipment (just like Onyx).

Crown celebrates equipment and all of its intricacies and builds its effects accordingly (just like Pride and Carmel)

Later,

Mike

I think the better comparison of BD is to the glory years of Fantasia. They were incredible dancers who still put heavy emphasis on equipment and unison work but let movement and style determine a lot of the show.

I really, really don't think there's anyone in DCI coming anywhere near the level of abstraction that Onyx has and, to be quite honest, I think that's a good thing. Though I love Onyx, I'm just not sure their style work on the football field, in the midst of greater artistic responsibilities to the rest of the corps.

Edited July 5, 2013 by saxfreq1128

[Guardguy89]

Of course not! But even then... even then... BD should not be getting perfect 20s. Relative to Crown, especially, BD should not be getting maxed out scores in guard. I don't disagree with the guard titles these last 5 or whatever years, but really, what's so bad about a more realistic 19.7-19.9?

I think it has more to do with the judges starting the scores too high at finals - so usually with 3 corps to go, they're already handing out 19.8's - so they almost box themselves into having to give BD a 20 to keep the spread.

Later,

Mike

[normy diploome]

All,

a perfect "20" doesn't mean that the performance was perfect. It simply means that relative to the competition they maxed out the sheets.

BD has some of the most intricate complex equipment / body work out there, but I do feel that their legacy affords them some leeway and latitudes from the judging community that other programs don't necessarily get.

Later,

Mike

Which is exactly the biased judging being scolded on other threads (cf. Full Panels.) An honest judge evaluates the 150 members in front of that judge that show, not a legacy, tradition, or history. Otherwise that judge is unfairly judging the other units of 150 members in that same show. A mature judge knows how to curb that. An immature judge does not. Notice I did not use the words rookie or veteran judge. I agree it happens. It should not happen...to any unit.If a judge can not curb that tendency that judge should quit before being fired.

Edited July 6, 2013 by normy diploome

[normy diploome]

I think it has more to do with the judges starting the scores too high at finals - so usually with 3 corps to go, they're already handing out 19.8's - so they almost box themselves into having to give BD a 20 to keep the spread.

Later,

Mike

Agreed. But those high numbers do not just drop out of the air. There is some pre-thought if one is so blind that the judge doesn't see the need for wiggle room with so many remaining units to perform. Witness what happened with the drum scores when championships were at Jackson, Mississippi.

[Guardguy89]

Agreed. But those high numbers do not just drop out of the air. There is some pre-thought if one is so blind that the judge doesn't see the need for wiggle room with so many remaining units to perform. Witness what happened with the drum scores when championships were at Jackson, Mississippi.

Absolutely! I'm just gonna keep hoping Crown gets best guard this year and go from there

Later,

Mike

[normy diploome]

I'll play Devil's advocate and say that i'd bet the pioneers of dci and wgi surely never thought they'd see dance so heavily incorporated in the activity, both in guard and the corps, but now, through years or INNOVATION, the activity has developed and grown into what it is now. Star 97, Cadets 2000, Cavies 03, Phantom 08, I'm relatively young to the activity, but even I can see a different between my first dci show and now. While I do agree, I don't think rifles drops merit a perfect score, perhaps the judges are evaluating the whole design of the productions: staging, costumes, characterization, nuance, color, texture, choreography, technique. Perhaps it wasn't a perfect 20 based off of THAT performance, but the VISION behind it was what was evaluated. I know, I know, even sometimes I don't understand the shows until much later down the road, but the new ideas and perspectives I get from watching the Blue Devils have helped me in my design process when I teach and has really driven my program to success. Work in progress.

That all being said, these color guards are unreal good and are truly inspiring.

This poster could not be any further from the truth as it actually happened if the poster tried.

Go back to the video tapes of the Seattle Imperials of Stanley Knaub using Oriental dance the first year of WGI.

Go back to the minutes and tapes of the board room discussions and the joking with Shirlee Whitcomb, the laughing of her self-deprecating humor imagining herself frolicking about in a tutu, and the sarcastic comments referring to the hippos in Disney's movie of Fantasia. The humor was to offset the ardor of others who foresaw that letting the danceshoes in a toe meant that they would eventually want the whole foot, leg, and body to enter. There was much wraggling and wrenching whether military color guards would enventually become a thing of the past as they now have.

Like most young know-it-all self-appointed guard elitists today, you disrespect the wisdom, knowledge, and efforts of the Founders by presuming it is all about the now and no one had a thought or premonition but the present.

The second line underlined is exactly why a judge would be banned from forever judging again as all the rule books (DCI, WGI, DCA) appoint the judge to evaluate the performers not the theory.

Edited July 6, 2013 by normy diploome

[Guard lover]

This poster could not be any further from the truth as it actually happened if the poster tried.

Go back to the video tapes of the Seattle Imperials of Stanley Knaub using Oriental dance the first year of WGI.

Go back to the minutes and tapes of the board room discussions and the joking with Shirlee Whitcomb, the laughing of her self-deprecating humor imagining herself frolicking about in a tutu, and the sarcastic comments referring to the hippos in Disney's movie of Fantasia. The humor was to offset the ardor of others who foresaw that letting the danceshoes in a toe meant that they would eventually want the whole foot, leg, and body to enter. There was much wraggling and wrenching whether military color guards would enventually become a thing of the past as they now have.

Like most young know-it-all self-appointed guard elitists today, you disrespect the wisdom, knowledge, and efforts of the Founders by presuming it is all about the now and no one had a thought or premonition but the present.

The second line underlined is exactly why a judge would be banned from forever judging again as all the rule books (DCI, WGI, DCA) appoint the judge to evaluate the performers not the theory.

Yes I am a young person, and perhaps I am newer to the activity, but I would like to know, where should I go if I ever choose to become a judge? Is there a special certification I would receive? I mean, one not created by either the DCI or WGI entities. What exactly legitimizes someone as a "Color Guard Judge"? Can I receive a degree in color guard from a University? Oh, so you're telling me anyone can be a color guard judge? It's all about who you know? Some are just judges based off of the fact that they've been in the activity so long that everyone else has either gone on with their lives and pursued something else or died?

A color guard judge is really only someone giving their opinion, period. My opinion is just as good as anyone else's sitting in the stands, the only difference with a judge is they happen to have a clipboard to keep score.

While I'm sorry your ego was hurt by my post, I will watch these ancient relics and keep them in mind during my design process. ;)