Tim K Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Surf is at the same place this year as last year, the difference with this year is that the concept is no longer new. The fact is that Surf is where it wants to be. They feel that providing a solid experience with drum corps and having a good time while doing it is what matters most, so they are achieving what they want to do and they really can't be faulted for it. They may find that this may not be enough and will have to be more competitive to recruit new members, but for now reinventing itself, reminding people how much fun a drum corps performance can be, and exciting a crowd are all worthy contributions to the activity and something Surf is doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 They also had smart design. Played standing still, moved when not necessarily playing, low marking time which hid false starts, stops etc. Hoffman was very smart when it came to hiding tics. Exceptional design. Bobby was one of the best in the business at that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 I guess I'm upset because it should be better than it is. If they just played with good fundamental brass technique, the show would be even more entertaining! If they just played an ensemble attack or release in time! Something has gone wrong the past two winters where they were not taught the tools to succeed. They need to change their approach somehow. It was barely clean enough to enjoy last year for me. Maybe it just doesn't matter though? If the masses are entertained, then the masses are entertained. I just can't look past the poor performance though. And maybe that is just a small portion of fans who feel the same as I do. But when I hear surf I think HS marching band, not drum corps. (Marching band doesn't even have to sound like that!) Personally I think it is a problem with music education everywhere. Too many teachers just wanting to run through the music so they have something to present at the concert, instead of taking the time to actually make it sound right.. and teach the fundamentals. If you don't have the proper fundamentals in place.. then you just aren't going to succeed.. or it's going to be a very very long road to success. It's okay to spend a half hour or more just playing a concert F. Breathing and attacking together, balance and blend, intonation, releasing together. Surf is missing all of this right now. And that is a huge issue in my eyes. It's not just early season dirt. And I don't mean to bag only on Surf. There are probably other corps to, just none as popular as Surf right now. I do wish them the best though, that they get it fixed up. But I hope some changes are made in the off season to get this drum corps on the right track. Keep writing the fun shows. You just have to perform them better. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyTenor Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I'll say this regarding VK from what I've gathered talking to staffers and vets of the corps: When VK was at their best, in the mid/late-80's to early 90's, VK was about solid execution and THEN the schtick. When VK was struggling more (94-96), they were "pressing it" with entertainment and fun schtick at the expense of solid design & execution foundation. It's one thing to be entertaining with a solid-executing corps: it's a whole other to try to be entertaining with poor execution. Focusing everything on entertainment at the expense of cohesive design and fundamental or even excelling performance comes across as desperation: a sort of, "well we can't to great performance so lets at least try to be funny or entertaining or something." It's never good when that gets focused more than solid execution This is spot on. One of the things we knew going in to the "entertainment" model was the assumption by the judging community that we weren't taking things "seriously". We were very fortunate to have Greg Clarke on staff. Greg, as an alumnus of the Bridgemen, was able to share the mindset, with member and staff alike, that substance always comes before flash. With that in mind, the corps worked extra hard to be as excellent as possible. Garry in Vegas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I guess I'm upset because it should be better than it is. If they just played with good fundamental brass technique, the show would be even more entertaining! If they just played an ensemble attack or release in time! Something has gone wrong the past two winters where they were not taught the tools to succeed. They need to change their approach somehow. It was barely clean enough to enjoy last year for me. Perhaps you should contact their brass staff and offer your expertise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) Personally I think it is a problem with music education everywhere. Too many teachers just wanting to run through the music so they have something to present at the concert, instead of taking the time to actually make it sound right.. and teach the fundamentals. If you don't have the proper fundamentals in place.. then you just aren't going to succeed.. or it's going to be a very very long road to success. It's okay to spend a half hour or more just playing a concert F. Breathing and attacking together, balance and blend, intonation, releasing together. Surf is missing all of this right now. And that is a huge issue in my eyes. It's not just early season dirt. That may not be a staff issue. It does no good to spend half the rehearsal breathing and attacking a concert F and then have half your hornline decided not to return for the next rehearsal. The point I am trying to make is that sometimes the students are not ready for that level of expectation. I am not going to blame the staff because I do not know the situation. Edited July 6, 2013 by DAvery 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 That may not be a staff issue. It does no good to spend half the rehearsal breathing and attacking a concert F and then have half your hornline decided not to return for the next rehearsal. The point I am trying to make is that sometimes the students are not ready for that level of expectation. I am not going to blame the staff because I do not know the situation. You need to know how balance rehearsal the right way. And I will blame the staff. Because they are letting this stuff slide. And this stuff is not acceptable in WORLD CLASS drum corps in my opinion. They are not teaching the correct techniques. That is why they sound so rough at this point of the season. There is no fundamental good sound coming out of that brass line. I'm not that great with drumlines, but they have issues themselves. And the whole corps cannot play together. This is a corps who has a lot of vets supposedly. A corps who went through a whole season. And it sounds worse than the beginning of last year. This is a staff problem. They are not giving them the right information. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 Perhaps you should contact their brass staff and offer your expertise. If they would like to contact me and ask for my input I would be glad to give it. In the meantime I will give my opinion up for discussion on DCP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Here's a thought, though: does it greatly diminish entertainment of the average show-fan if the corps is performing poorly? I'm not saying scores matter in regards to entertainment, but for me and most people I know (who have drum corps experience so we have our own bias, maybe) if a corps if really dirty it is very hard to appreciate/like. I can appreciate a show I don't like if it's performed well, but it's hard to be entertained by mediocre performance. Obviously Surf was beloved last year by the masses, so maybe performance quality isn't as big a factor to the majority of drum corps-attending fans... I am addressing the following paragraph in regards to the entire activity...not one corps. If a performance of what should be an entertaining show is so sub-par that fans notice the performance more than they can appreciate the entertainment, then I believe the entertainment value would be diminished. If the fans notice the entertainment value and can appreciate the performance in close to equal degrees, then I believe the show will be overall entertaining to them. It's a delicate balance. Last year, Surf was not close to being one of the best performing corps. However, they were good enough that fans could focus on the entertainment value, which was through the roof. We've also had corps that performed amazingly well and were about as entertaining and interesting as fishing a wayward golf ball out of a bowl of clam dip. Both performance quality and entertainment value have to be within a range of "good enough" for fans to not be bogged down in their appreciation. At that point, personal taste comes into play. (No...I will not provide examples. I like my job.) And if someone uses my thoughts as the basis of a doctoral thesis, at least mention me on the credit page. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 And just so we are clear. I have no problem at all with people being entertained. In fact, that is awesome. Me personally.. I'm look for excellence in everything. If you aren't going to do something to the best of your ability, then why do it. And I expect nothing but the best from drum corps. But please. If you are entertained.. live it up. I know every corps isn't for everyone. Even the consistently best performing corps can't win over the crowd. Boo is right. it does come down to personal taste. Personally.. just look and sound good. Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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