kdaddy Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Nonsense. There is no evidence at all to support your contention that the Star of Indiana staff was so tone deaf, so out of touch with national audience tastes, that they designed a show whose national audience reaction appeared to stun them and shock them. These Star staff members were ( and are ) intelligent and perceptive people re Drum Corps general audience tastes. To think otherwise, is simply absurd and naive, imo. To not understand that perc is referring to 1992 is simply absurd and naïve, imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) To not understand that perc is referring to 1992 is simply absurd and naïve, imo. I think its absurd to believe that Star's show design staff were so out of touch and naive with Drum Corps audiences that they had no idea their shows would fall flat with large segments of their audience after they changed up their style to try and win over the judges to win a title and not the national audiences. Star's staff were intelligent and perceptive re. audiences. They were NEVER caught off Guard regarding how their shows would be received by national audiences. In ANY year. To believe otherwise, means the Star's show designers were completely out of touch. But thats not the Star staff at all. We know this. Thats because when Star quit DCI, their staff scrapped their latter years DCI styled shows and went out and won a Tony Award by designing a show ( " BLAST" ) that became a world wide hit with international audiences, including US and Canadian Drum Corps fans. Star's staff knows how to design shows for a primary appeal with audiences, and shows for a primary appeal for DCI judges in DCI competition. They've designed both. And they know the difference between the two. To think otherwise, is frankly silly and naive, imo. Edited July 9, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) The slide down the placements the final week and the tepid audience reaction to what was constructed as an audience-friendly show had an impact on Mason. He explored a different direction with a vengeance. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ] Jim Mason, in my opinion, was naturally frustrated more with the DCI judges at the time as they " slid down the placements the final week ". Its much easier to blame the audience than it is the judges that score and place your Corps. As for " exploring a different direction with a vengence ", this is certainly true. Less than 6 months later, Jim and his Star Staff decided they had had enough of DCI and would quit DCI altogether after the '93 season. They then went out and designed a show that would be completely judged by audiences... audiences world wide. And the rest is history. Mason is now back in DCI with the Madison Scouts, and designing national fan friendly shows for the Madison Scouts. So this is what has transpired since Michael Boo wrote his article awhile back. Edited July 9, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I think its absurd to believe that Star's show design staff were so out of touch and naive with Drum Corps audiences that they had no idea their shows would fall flat with large segments of their audience after they changed up their style to try and win over the judges to win a title and not the national audiences. Star's staff were intelligent and perceptive re. audiences. They were NEVER caught off Guard regarding how their shows would be received by national audiences. In ANY year. To believe otherwise, means the Star's show designers were completely out of touch. But thats not the Star staff at all. We know this. Thats because when Star quit DCI, their staff scrapped their latter years DCI styled shows and went out and won a Tony Award by designing a show ( " BLAST" ) that became a world wide hit with international audiences, including US and Canadian Drum Corps fans. Star's staff knows how to design shows for a primary appeal with audiences, and shows for a primary appeal for DCI judges in DCI competition. They've designed both. And they know the difference between the two. To think otherwise, is frankly silly and naive, imo. I'm going to go out on a limb on this one - I may find myself being the only one that believes what I believe about '92 Star. I saw Star early in the Season that year - I think it was Hershey - and was blown away. Performance levels weren't perfect, but the scores were pretty darn close to perfect (musical scores - not judges'). I felt the emotional connection of a beautifully conceived and executed show that just needed to get cleaner organically. Nothing else seemed to be in Star's class. By finals at Camp Randall I felt as if I were watching a totally different corps, especially in the horn line. The cleanliness was now perfect, the soul almost entirely lost. Speaking to corps members I knew, I heard that in the last 2 weeks, if you couldn't play a part perfectly (under any condition) you were simply removed from that part. I'm not attacking Jimmer and Donny here - I'm a huge fan - always have been. Just two of the smartest guys who ever did this activity. I do however, in my own heart of hearts, fear that the staff lost faith in the corps' ability to sell that Patriotic show, and watered out the soul of it. Accept that, reject it, laugh at it. I personally heard what the judging community (and other fans) seem to have heard at the end of the year - a magnificent corps dedicated to a show they had lost belief in, or understanding of. That's the way I heard it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) Speaking to corps members I knew, I heard that in the last 2 weeks, if you couldn't play a part perfectly (under any condition) you were simply removed from that part. I'm not attacking Jimmer and Donny here - I'm a huge fan - always have been. Just two of the smartest guys who ever did this activity. I do however, in my own heart of hearts, fear that the staff lost faith in the corps' ability to sell that Patriotic show, and watered out the soul of it. Accept that, reject it, laugh at it. I personally heard what the judging community (and other fans) seem to have heard at the end of the year - a magnificent corps dedicated to a show they had lost belief in, or understanding of. That's the way I heard it. If true, it means that the staff ( Mason, Van Doren el al ) watered down the show right before Finals Week not because of audiences, but because of what they hoped it would do for judges. I saw the 92 Star of Indiana show live ( "American Variations ") early in the season as well. Beverly Ma. And it got a standing O. The audience LOVED it. Myself and others with me included. There was not a single boo heard in Beverly Ma. Quite the contrary. I can not account for what might have transpired later in that season with other audiences, nor the judges feedback to the Corps as the season progressed. I'll accept your recollection that the show got watered down to appeal to the judges as the season went on. Thats a shame. In the end, that tactic did not work. In any event, its pretty clear that in short order, Mason and crew had had it, and needed to get away from DCI for awhile. They did. And decided to design a show that would be totally judged by paying customer audiences, not by a few DCI judges. And that Award winning design ( " BLAST " ) worked exceedingly well with the new international " judges " ( ie, audiences ), and did so for over a decade. Edited July 9, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) I saw the '92 Star of Indiana show ("American Variations") early in the season as well. Beverly, Mass. [July 5.] And it got a standing O. The audience LOVED it. There was not a single boo heard in Beverly. Quite the contrary. I can not account for what might have transpired later in that season with other audiences, nor the judges feedback to the Corps as the season progressed. I saw Star's '92 show late in the season, on Aug. 6 in Mentor (CorpsReps lists it as Cleveland, but the show was actually 20 miles out of town). I wasn't savvy enough to know about watered down parts, if that's what happened. But I enjoyed it and thought it was clearly the best performance that night. The audience certainly didn't complain, and lots of people stayed for Star's encore. (I do remember being surprised that the retreat process was shorter than at the last show I'd attended, a couple years earlier.) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Link to discussion threads for all 2013 World Class corps Edited July 9, 2013 by N.E. Brigand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) I saw Star's '92 show late in the season, on Aug. 6 in Mentor (CorpsReps lists it as Cleveland, but the show was actually 20 miles out of town). I wasn't savvy enough to know about watered down parts, if that's what happened. But I enjoyed it and thought it was clearly the best performance that night. The audience certainly didn't complain, and lots of people stayed for Star's encore. (I do remember being surprised that the retreat process was shorter than at the last show I'd attended, a couple years earlier.) Yes, I like '92 Star's show now years later still. Even after seeing it live way back in '92. Its a shame that people boo a DCI Corps in performance. Thats unheard of in my neck of the woods ( Massachusetts ). Judges might be booed on a rare occasion, here and there. But a Corps in performance ? I've never witnessed that. If a Mass. audience doesn't particularly enjoy a show they still give that Corps a hand... but its maybe a golf clap. Booing ? No Corps in performance or immediately after their performance gets that in Massachusetts. I'm not aware of it ever happening anyway. And Star in 92... a midwest Corps... got an enthusiastic Standing O in Beverly, Ma. early in that summer season for their Patriotic themed show for that season. Edited July 9, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadScout80 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 It wasnt that people didnt enjoy Star's show. I always felt the reactions that night were due to practically everyone (it seemed) wanting the Cavaliers to win their first DCI. That has been my take on it all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) It wasnt that people didnt enjoy Star's show. I always felt the reactions that night were due to practically everyone (it seemed) wanting the Cavaliers to win their first DCI. That has been my take on it all along. You just might be on to something regarding '92 Star. I'm not sure if some people here realize that Star in '92 won the Quarterfinals that year. By 7 tenths too. But you're right, there might have been some audiences pulling for the Cavs in '92. As it turned out the Cavs nudged Star in the Semi's ( 2 tenths ), then won the title the next nite. My guess, it must have been frustrating for the Star of Indiana '92 Corps MM's and staff to have won the Quarters by 7 tenths, but then came in 2nd in the Semi's, then slipped to 3rd place in the Finals. I think what the Corps produced in '93 stylistically was more in reaction to the judges at 92 Championships than to anything they heard from national audiences in show performances during the course of their summer travels. But who knows. In the end, their '93 show production did not win with the DCI judges either. So they took a break from DCI and DCI judging. They voluntarily withdew from DCI and disbanded their Corps. And the rest is history as to what the Star staff did next. Edited July 9, 2013 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadScout80 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 ... there might have been some audiences pulling for the Cavs in '92. Ya think?! They had long been the crowd favorites that never won. Many thought they should have won once or twice already. If they didnt win that night there may have been rioting in the streets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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