To march baritone or euphonium?

[cowtown]

If you are really worried about being able to carry the horn then just go out for the color guard

<ducks and covers>

[TRacer]

Nice spread of horns there! I've been browsing eBay to pick up a cheap 2 or 3 valve G horn, just to mess around with. I've always heard that the old King 2 valve G euphs were massively heavy and awkward, but I've never messed around with them. I only know the weight stats on the Yamaha horns, I'm sure that all companies have different weights for their horns. I think the King euphs are close to 10 or 11 pounds, not to mention being horribly unbalanced.

I play lead parts on a chrome King K80 2V G Euph, it's a blast.

[Musicfanatic7232]

If you are really worried about being able to carry the horn then just go out for the color guard

<ducks and covers>

Sorry, but I'm not a guard girl. And im just trying to get some GOOD advice from NICE people on how I should go about managing the weight.No one asked you to bring negativity to this thread. Please go away, thanks in advance :-)

Edited August 1, 2013 by Musicfanatic7232

[Piper]

If you are really worried about being able to carry the horn then just go out for the color guard

<ducks and covers>

What are you trying to do kill her? Man, give give her a break will ya?

[TRacer]

Sorry, but I'm not a guard girl. And im just trying to get some GOOD advice from NICE people on how I should go about managing the weight.No one asked you to bring negativity to this thread. Please go away, thanks in advance :-)

I realize there's a huge age discrepancy here, but I would like to relate some of the training regimen I did that might assist. At the time I marched we played DEG 2V G's which were both bell-front heavy and awkward to hold. I'm not sure if you are an athlete now, but when I started marching I had already been on the track team, CC, a halfback on the varsity soccer team, etc. I'd also been in marching band since 7th grade. Running was a huge thing for me, and I concur with prior posters that a good cardio program is a great thing to pursue.

As far as strength goes,

(1) I had a gym membership, and they had these inversion boots you could strap onto your ankles so you could hang upside down from a pull up bar with your arms free just brushing the floor. I would do inverted butterfly exercises using free weights in this position, usually starting with 10 lbs. in each hand, with reps of 20. I'd rest (still upside down) 3 minutes, then do it again. Get off bar, go switch weights to 15...get back on bar, hang, do two sets of reps with rest in between...I repeated this exercise in 5 lb. increments, and over time I built up enough strength to do two set of 15 with 35 lbs. in each hand inverted.

(2) Next up, tricep dips. You can do these at home; I used two gym benches set about 4 feet apart. This is the exercise where you put grab the edge of Bench #1, then put your heels on Bench #2 such that your body is hanging freely with only your triceps holding you up. You then lower yourself by bending your elbows until your butt just about touches the floor, then lift yourself back up again. I usually did 4 sets of reps of 40-50. Later on I put weights on stomach to increase the load.

(3) bench pressing

(4) free weights to work the biceps

(5) Now for the tough one...in SCV we used to do an exercise where we would mark time 101 counts and halt, and if we blew the halt we all got to do it over again. My spin on this exercise was to take a 5 lb. free weight and hold it in front of me lengthwise in playing position, stand up against a wall to confirm posture, march forward 4 steps and halt, "flip" the "horn" down, then up, then mark time HIGH (not present day "pseudo-high", but "real" BITD high) at about 130-135 bpm for 101 counts and halt. "Flip" the "horn" down, then go to SCV's parade rest position (at that time it was a two count move.) Rest two minutes. Go grab a 10 lb weight, and repeat...back against wall, 4 steps forward, horn up, MT high 101 counts, etc....rest...next weight: 15 lbs...horn in front, check posture, march forward, horn flip, MT high 101 counts, etc...

I repeated this exercise in 5 lb. increments to the point where I was holding a 35 lb. weight in front of me in playing position doing this whole mark time routine. Throughout I would check my MT technique in a mirror to make sure my leg lift didn't drop.

NOW...if this seems sort of extreme it probably is, but it helped immensely! I had body control totally wired, and I felt like I had "turned the amp up to 11," to paraphrase bass player Nigel Tuffnel from the 80's movie Spinal Tap. And, I was not some bulked up "uber" dude, probably because I didn't eat enough and I was running 8-10 miles a day. When I was in college I had a complete body-fat test done as part of a class I took at Oregon State, and I checked in at under 3%. If you Youtube search (copy/paste the following) "Ol' Skool 6 - '84 'Musica Bohemia" (this is SCV '84's drum solo) and pause at 1:44 of the video, you'll see a skinny baritone player with glasses on the left in the closeup and note that he wasn't a large guy at all.

THE DOWNSIDE: I developed a chronic condition where the tendons swelled up in my left shoulder and would pinch under my clavicle whenever I played, and it hurt most of the time. My parents even had my shoulder x-rayed, and the doctor had never seen an injury like it.

PS: I also spun a flag and a mace to work on my wrists.

I hope this helped in some way. Best of luck!

Edited August 1, 2013 by TRacer

[fsubone]

To echo right above, you don't need to be super bulked up to play baritone or euphonium. I think the most I ever weighed during my marching years was 149 at the start of the season, and I was usually down to 135 or 130 by the end of it. For someone that's 6'2", that's pretty darn skinny. Was still able to carry the horn because it's not about big muscles, it's about muscle endurance. I've also marched with a couple of girls who couldn't have been over 5'0" and 100 pounds, and they could still handle the horns better than some of the guys.

[Dash Fieldpaint]

Nice spread of horns there! I've been browsing eBay to pick up a cheap 2 or 3 valve G horn, just to mess around with. I've always heard that the old King 2 valve G euphs were massively heavy and awkward, but I've never messed around with them. I only know the weight stats on the Yamaha horns, I'm sure that all companies have different weights for their horns. I think the King euphs are close to 10 or 11 pounds, not to mention being horribly unbalanced.

I've been looking for a King euph for a long time, but I haven't found one in the right condition and/or at the right time. The Kanstul euph is basically a King 2 valve euph with a 3rd valve added on. It's STUPID heavy, and bell-heavy at that. I never marched one, I marched a Dynasty bari exactly like in my picture. I have a huge amount of respect for anyone who marched a Kanstul euph. It's most likely the heaviest non-shoulder mounted brass instrument ever used in drum corps. One exception might be the one Dynasty 3 valve euph prototype the Phantom marched. Apparently it was like the Dynasty euph I have pictured, but even bigger. I saw a picture of the Phantom euph line back then, in 92ish? 93?, and the prototype was significantly larger than the rest of the euphs.

[Musicfanatic7232]

I realize there's a huge age discrepancy here, but I would like to relate some of the training regimen I did that might assist. At the time I marched we played DEG 2V G's which were both bell-front heavy and awkward to hold. I'm not sure if you are an athlete now, but when I started marching I had already been on the track team, CC, a halfback on the varsity soccer team, etc. I'd also been in marching band since 7th grade. Running was a huge thing for me, and I concur with prior posters that a good cardio program is a great thing to pursue.

As far as strength goes,

(1) I had a gym membership, and they had these inversion boots you could strap onto your ankles so you could hang upside down from a pull up bar with your arms free just brushing the floor. I would do inverted butterfly exercises using free weights in this position, usually starting with 10 lbs. in each hand, with reps of 20. I'd rest (still upside down) 3 minutes, then do it again. Get off bar, go switch weights to 15...get back on bar, hang, do two sets of reps with rest in between...I repeated this exercise in 5 lb. increments, and over time I built up enough strength to do two set of 15 with 35 lbs. in each hand inverted.

(2) Next up, tricep dips. You can do these at home; I used two gym benches set about 4 feet apart. This is the exercise where you put grab the edge of Bench #1, then put your heels on Bench #2 such that your body is hanging freely with only your triceps holding you up. You then lower yourself by bending your elbows until your butt just about touches the floor, then lift yourself back up again. I usually did 4 sets of reps of 40-50. Later on I put weights on stomach to increase the load.

(3) bench pressing

(4) free weights to work the biceps

(5) Now for the tough one...in SCV we used to do an exercise where we would mark time 101 counts and halt, and if we blew the halt we all got to do it over again. My spin on this exercise was to take a 5 lb. free weight and hold it in front of me lengthwise in playing position, stand up against a wall to confirm posture, march forward 4 steps and halt, "flip" the "horn" down, then up, then mark time HIGH (not present day "pseudo-high", but "real" BITD high) at about 130-135 bpm for 101 counts and halt. "Flip" the "horn" down, then go to SCV's parade rest position (at that time it was a two count move.) Rest two minutes. Go grab a 10 lb weight, and repeat...back against wall, 4 steps forward, horn up, MT high 101 counts, etc....rest...next weight: 15 lbs...horn in front, check posture, march forward, horn flip, MT high 101 counts, etc...

I repeated this exercise in 5 lb. increments to the point where I was holding a 35 lb. weight in front of me in playing position doing this whole mark time routine. Throughout I would check my MT technique in a mirror to make sure my leg lift didn't drop.

NOW...if this seems sort of extreme it probably is, but it helped immensely! I had body control totally wired, and I felt like I had "turned the amp up to 11," to paraphrase bass player Nigel Tuffnel from the 80's movie Spinal Tap. And, I was not some bulked up "uber" dude, probably because I didn't eat enough and I was running 8-10 miles a day. When I was in college I had a complete body-fat test done as part of a class I took at Oregon State, and I checked in at under 3%. If you Youtube search (copy/paste the following) "Ol' Skool 6 - '84 'Musica Bohemia" (this is SCV '84's drum solo) and pause at 1:44 of the video, you'll see a skinny baritone player with glasses on the left in the closeup and note that he wasn't a large guy at all.

THE DOWNSIDE: I developed a chronic condition where the tendons swelled up in my left shoulder and would pinch under my clavicle whenever I played, and it hurt most of the time. My parents even had my shoulder x-rayed, and the doctor had never seen an injury like it.

PS: I also spun a flag and a mace to work on my wrists.

I hope this helped in some way. Best of luck!

Geez! You were doing some pretty intense training. Props to you for that! I don't know if you've mentioned this before but what years did you march scv?? Oh and I looked up the video and you're right, that guy wasn't very big. Thanks for your advice and for telling me your stories!

Edited August 1, 2013 by Musicfanatic7232