If BD Wins, We Riot!

[perc2100]

I'm a big movie person, and I find a lot of comparisons in DCI to that. Critics and people "in the know" were constantly praising Life of Pi last year, so of course I had to go see what all of the hub-bub was about. By the time it was time, I couldn't help but admit it was a well done movie, but extremely contrived in message and tone. Film that was trying to hard in simple terms. But it was critically acclaimed, and if the people whose job it is to evaluate this stuff says it's good, then it has to be good right? Sometimes I even find myself going along with the critical wisdom, even if I don't entirely agree, because they should know what they're talking about, so they must be right. Just things to think about.

I find a lot of comparisons to DCI with the general film 'world.' I'm a pretty big movie nerd, see as much as my budget & time allows, and have a pretty wide taste when it comes to movies (I can have a good time watching MAN OF STEEL in the afternoon, and then UPSTREAM COLOR in the evening, even though those films are two wildly different in every conceivable way).

The beauty of drum corps is that there is a pretty wide variety when it comes to style and tone, just like in the film world:

*Jersey Surf is like the huge, popular blockbuster that is not winning any awards but is making a ton of money at the box office (maybe, like, the 3D modernized ALICE IN WONDERLAND)

* a corps like Madison Scouts are like a popular blockbuster that has a little bit of substance: something that film critics can enjoy, but not get too deep analyzing, is executed well enough to be flat-out good, etc (maybe like AVENGERS or IRON MAN 3)

* corps like Phantom, or Bluecoats have a little bit more depth to their substance, but maybe just aren't great enough to be award-nominated or on critics 'Top 10' list (maybe something like the modern TRUE GRIT - yeah, I just finished watching that so it's kind of on my mind :tongue:/> )

* a corps like SCV is the rare film that's really popular, a blockbuster that is also critically acclaimed and up for Best Picture (maybe similar to last year's LES MIS or AVATAR)

* Cadets, Crown, and BD are like the pseudo-art house films that are vying for Best Picture, are the films that are at the top of critics 'Best Movie of the Year,' and any of them has a legit shot at winning. However, their audience appeal is not as broad as for other 'contenders' (maybe HURT LOCKER, THE ARTIST, BEASTS OF THE SOUTHERN WILD)

The beauty is, just like the film industry drum corps has a plethora of styles for all to enjoy, regardless of personal taste. And just like it's silly for fans of LES MIS or ZERO DARK THIRTY to complain that ARGO beat the other films out for Best Picture last year, I think drum corps fans can't put too much stock in who wins DCI. The shows we like we're still going to like, regardless of placement, so why get all upset when shows we don't like do well competitively?

Also, FWIW, I wasn't a fan of LIFE OF PI either. Definitely incredibly well made, but I just never could get into the movie beyond "wow that looks pretty great for looking at 85% pixels"

Edited July 31, 2013 by perc2100

[jasgre2000]

do you think kids walk around all day whistling Rite? Einstein? most of the stuff you hear?

after watching 23 corps over 2 days last year, you know what got the best crowd reaction from kids...Surf's closer.

So is Surf your model for drum corps? If so, we are further apart than I thought. Don't get me wrong ... I have fun watching Surf's shows. But if every corps was doing what Surf does, I wouldn't pay a penny to watch it. I don't think I am alone in that. If you think "kids" will be inspired to become drum corps fans by Surf, I think you have missed the boat.

[jasgre2000]

Actually...i'm less disdainful of this years show than any since 07, because I like the Rite of Spring, and the original source stuff from Sebelsky.

But...the way it's presented just leaves me flat. Yeah they are clean as hell. We can debate the various reasons for that in other threads.

As such, I'm not a music major, so I don't really know the background on Rite. I do know the music...drum corps introduced me to it. But i've never had the time and desire to go find out what stravinsky was thinking when he wrote it.

And believe it or not, a lot of people world wide aren't familiar with him. You've proved what many are saying.....that drum corps has become this place where you have to be a music major to know this stuff. I can guarantee you many fans won't know it's the same guy that did Firebird. I know many drum corps fans that only hear classical music when they go to drum corps shows. I always found it hysterical that my dad's fave was Phantom, and I can guarantee you all he ever had on at home was the Stones and Pink Floyd.

I'm not a music major. The only music class I took in college was a semester of marching band my freshman year (which sucked, by the way). I think you underestimate the propensity of non music major drum corps fans' interest in classical music.

[jjeffeory]

You don't have to research anything to enjoy it, although doing some background research could probably enhance all of the shows. I am seriously dumbfounded as to why people hate this years BD show. I am convinced it is BD hatred, and not the show ... because they show is freakin' amazing and quite engaging.

When you say you need to do research to understand BD's show, do you mean that you don't understand Rite of Spring? Because Rite of Spring is one of the most influential and well known pieces of the 20th century. I sure hope drum corps audiences aren't unfamiliar with Stravinsky. If you can't understand Stravinsky then I think it is time to move on.

It's the show design, jasgre2000. I started the season enjoying their show, but the thing that got me are my friends, who have no vested interest in ANY corps, let alone hating on BD just because they're BD... They were weirded out by the show, which I get. They're not corps people... The thing they point out to me was that the pit and electronics just got louder and louder from the middle of the show until the end of the show... It's was just grating... IT'S THE DESIGN, not the corps... It's the way the designers design currently, since around 2008.... But you just believe it's "BD hatred"..... 'Cause you know, a bunch of 30+ year old men and women are into that sort of childish behavior....

[jasgre2000]

Could part of it be that sometimes there is a difference between an actually intelligent design, and one we're all just told is intelligent? I've always found that Bluecoats have show designs that make me think, and have layers to them. I never get told though that I'm un-cultured if I don't understand their show the first time, and I have voiced those concerns frequently. I have been told though that I'm not sophisticated enough to get what BD has been doing lately, and that's kind of annoying. I'm a music major finishing their last year of school, I'm well versed and quite well read. So I'd like to think that I can think critically and evaluate a show design without being told I'm not smart enough to get it. I know people come on here and proclaim that show and that show as high art and the greatest thing ever, because the staff comes out with a press release full of artsy language, and the judges seem to like it. Does that make it high art though, or are we all just buying "art" hook, line, and sinker from the people feeding us the shows?

I'm a big movie person, and I find a lot of comparisons in DCI to that. Critics and people "in the know" were constantly praising Life of Pi last year, so of course I had to go see what all of the hub-bub was about. By the time it was time, I couldn't help but admit it was a well done movie, but extremely contrived in message and tone. Film that was trying to hard in simple terms. But it was critically acclaimed, and if the people whose job it is to evaluate this stuff says it's good, then it has to be good right? Sometimes I even find myself going along with the critical wisdom, even if I don't entirely agree, because they should know what they're talking about, so they must be right. Just things to think about.

I have honestly not seen people make this argument at all (maybe I have missed it or you are describing conversations you have had elsewhere). I don't think your acceptance of BD has anything to do with whether you are cultured. It is merely a matter of taste. Can exposure to culture (research on Stravinsky) give insight into BD's show? Absolutely. I think you can say that about every show. SCV's show, which is a crowd pleaser, is better when you understand what Les Miserables is about. Don't confuse people's discussion of the cultural aspects of BD's show with the argument that it must be good because it HAS a cultural aspect. If you don't like it ... you don't like it.

[fsubone]

I find a lot of comparisons to DCI with the general film 'world.' I'm a pretty big movie nerd, see as much as my budget & time allows, and have a pretty wide taste when it comes to movies (I can have a good time watching MAN OF STEEL in the afternoon, and then UPSTREAM COLOR in the evening, even though those films are two wildly different in every conceivable way).

The beauty of drum corps is that there is a pretty wide variety when it comes to style and tone, just like in the film world:

*Jersey Surf is like the huge, popular blockbuster that is not winning any awards but is making a ton of money at the box office (maybe, like, the 3D modernized ALICE IN WONDERLAND)

* a corps like Madison Scouts are like a popular blockbuster that has a little bit of substance: something that film critics can enjoy, but not get too deep analyzing, is executed well enough to be flat-out good, etc (maybe like AVENGERS or IRON MAN 3)

* corps like Phantom, or Bluecoats have a little bit more depth to their substance, but maybe just aren't great enough to be award-nominated or on critics 'Top 10' list (maybe something like the modern TRUE GRIT - yeah, I just finished watching that so it's kind of on my mind :tongue:/>/> )

* a corps like SCV is the rare film that's really popular, a blockbuster that is also critically acclaimed and up for Best Picture (maybe similar to last year's LES MIS or AVATAR)

* Cadets, Crown, and BD are like the pseudo-art house films that are vying for Best Picture, are the films that are at the top of critics 'Best Movie of the Year,' and any of them has a legit shot at winning. However, their audience appeal is not as broad as for other 'contenders' (maybe HURT LOCKER, THE ARTIST, BEASTS OF THE SOUTHERN WILD)

The beauty is, just like the film industry drum corps has a plethora of styles for all to enjoy, regardless of personal taste. And just like it's silly for fans of LES MIS or ZERO DARK THIRTY to complain that ARGO beat the other films out for Best Picture last year, I think drum corps fans can't put too much stock in who wins DCI. The shows we like we're still going to like, regardless of placement, so why get all upset when shows we don't like do well competitively?

Also, FWIW, I wasn't a fan of LIFE OF PI either. Definitely incredibly well made, but I just never could get into the movie beyond "wow that looks pretty great for looking at 85% pixels"

I think you're dead on with this. There are a lot of comparisons that can be drawn between DCI and the film world, just like with the art world at large. Go stop in at a modern art museum, and look at some of the stuff. A lot of it will make pretty much zero sense, but it's in a museum, and called art by the people in charge of these things. So that means it obviously has to be art, even if it's over our heads.

That was my reaction to Life of Pi, considering it was all just a green screen. And it completely bankrupted the company that made it. I actually just saw both Pacific Rim and Ain't Them Bodies Saints over the weekend, so I hit both ends of the spectrum all in one weekend. That was sure an interesting way to do things. Both very good movies though, BTW.

[fsubone]

I have honestly not seen people make this argument at all (maybe I have missed it or you are describing conversations you have had elsewhere). I don't think your acceptance of BD has anything to do with whether you are cultured. It is merely a matter of taste. Can exposure to culture (research on Stravinsky) give insight into BD's show? Absolutely. I think you can say that about every show. SCV's show, which is a crowd pleaser, is better when you understand what Les Miserables is about. Don't confuse people's discussion of the cultural aspects of BD's show with the argument that it must be good because it HAS a cultural aspect. If you don't like it ... you don't like it.

I think your last sentence is the most important thing here. Everyone is allowed to like and not like whatever they want. That's why there are so many different shows out there.

Last year, there were comments made that people who didn't understand BD's show just weren't sophisticated enough to get the subtext and layers to it. That kind of stuck under my skin as a slight again a massive group of DCI fans and music fans in general. Don't you think there are people out there though who will buy whatever is put in front of them because it is presented to them as art, and therefore it has to be art.

I've researched Rite of Spring and know a lot about it. That insight helps, but there are still parts of BD's show I don't like. Simple as that. I wouldn't like the visual elements whether it's in 1st or 21st. There are show elements I like and don't like about everyone's shows. No show is perfect or terrible and without hope.

[jasgre2000]

if you get your way....you'll lose a lot more.

perhaps you should read some reviews. I find lost to praise. I even said in the Atlanta thread after watching everyone, even the dreaded DCA corps, I found an overwhelming majority of them worthwhile.

actually three of the ones I liked least were at the top.

and they aren't alone in causing DCI problems, but they sure drive the bus.

I'm trying to remember the times I heard the champion booed before their streak...hmm....um....well....no that was the crowd booing Madisons score. heathens...how dare they do that to the other 11 corps full of kids out there.

What is "my way"? All I want is for corps to have the freedom to express themselves as they see fit. You are the one that wants to punish corps for not entertaining you. Do you honestly think that allowing artistic freedom will drive people away from DCI? If so, then DCI fans are pretty pathetic.

There are a couple shows I am not fond of this year, but you don't see me ranting and raving about how they are destroying drum corps. Many people like those shows, which is great. I just keep my mouth shut when they are on.

[jasgre2000]

i'll try and make it more clear for you.

people just want to be entertained, not educated. is that a bad thing?

( I know I said this before, but I just said it again).

but with shows designed as they are.....if you don't get it, it leaves you feeling blah. Bored.Lost. Looking at your phone. reading the program.

I'll try to make it clear for you now (and use large letters so you can see better). NO ONE SAID YOU HAVE TO BE EDUCATED AND NO ONE HAS SAID YOU HAVE TO DO RESEARCH TO LIKE DRUM CORPS. If you want mindless entertainment, there is plenty of it there for you. If you don't find it in BD's show, watch someone else's show. I don't see why your desire to be mindlessly entertained should prevent other people from finding pleasure in learning knew things from watching a drum corps show. If that isn't what you want ... so be it. Stop acting like you talk for "the people" though, because I guaranty that you don't. Most people find education enriching and satisfying. There is no need for you to take that away from them.

[HiddenMonster]

This thread is really embarrassing.