Synth Doubling Brass****

[actucker]

This thread is the epitome of a dead horse beating. No amount of conversation is going to change anyone's mind one way or the other. Pretty much everything there is to be said on this topic has been said in hundreds of pages of other threads.

[Nizerifin]

I would suggest being less dogmatic about synths. The issue for me is quality rather than pure usage. Corps really just need to co-produce with a decent DJ/producer and I think the product will be much higher quality than what we see now.

[jonnyboy]

The problem is that the amps are positioned in fixed locations in front of the pit. The brass is much further back on the field. Balance can be achieved, but only for certain parts of the audience. And the professional staffer who's controlling that balance is aiming for the press box. Unfortunately, this means that large portions of the actual audience are getting too much bass and other synth.

Here here. I bought some last minute tickets for Allentown. Row 7, 35 yard line. Right in front of most amps. Way to loud in that area, my ears hurt the next day. A woman two seats down bolted for the cheap seats, she told her friends "Surf made my ears hurt". She spent the rest of the show down around the ten yard line.

[heyboiay]

My problem is that it's fake. Like someone else said it covers weaknesses much more than any other percussive instrument may. Whereas timpani, bass drum etc add low end it's typically only through impacts and not through sustains. I do not enjoy hearing fake low end while trying to appreciate the sound of a hornline and an authentic tuba sound.

[Triple Forte]

In general I like the added low range of the synth. It enhances the overall sound of the ensemble. It has to be balanced with the rest of the ensemble, of course, as with any voice, be it trumpet, tuba or snares..etc.

Problem is....in most cases it is not balanced. Out of all the corps in Allentown the two corps that stuck out as not having an overpowering pit (Mainly bass/synth) was Blue Knights and Troopers.

I just can't in my most extreme imagination figure out what the corps staffs, cap heads and arrangers are hearing. I mean..I know their hearing is good. Brass staff can pick out issues with individuals when they play air and valve only...and this is when the staff is in the press box during practices. Brass staff in particular work tirelessly on getting the texture of brass balance just right. That all becomes a moot point when you add the pit. It's nothing less then mind boggling..

I would love to sit with staff/cap heads during their shows....

[Jeff Ream]

It's only been five seasons since synth was added. Pit amps were approved for 2004; electronics for 2009. Still lots of time!

yeah except we were told from day 1 these guys were experts due to their involvement with band.

and yet Saturday at East, people with electronic blend issues still got 9's.

[FlamMan]

If DCI surveyed fans about electronics & narration, the results would be a landslide against both. I'm guessing 80% against.

[Jeff Ream]

If DCI surveyed fans about electronics & narration, the results would be a landslide against both. I'm guessing 80% against.

but they won't

[CrownStarr]

The problem is that the amps are positioned in fixed locations in front of the pit. The brass is much further back on the field. Balance can be achieved, but only for certain parts of the audience. And the professional staffer who's controlling that balance is aiming for the press box. Unfortunately, this means that large portions of the actual audience are getting too much bass and other synth.

I don't really think this is much of the problem. A brass section can still be balanced and blended if they're spread front to back, right? IMO the main issues that contribute to synth bass problems are:

1. Sheer volume. Too much of any piece of the ensemble and it'll be unbalanced.

2. Timbres that don't blend with the brass. This of course assumes that a total blend with the brass section is the goal, which it isn't always. There's a lick in the Bluecoats show that's doubled on what sounds like an electric guitar from the keyboard. Whether you like that mixture of sounds or not, it's clear that a seamless blend with the brass is not what the designers were looking for, just the same as if it was doubled on a xylophone or a glockenspiel. But when they do want it, it's hit or miss. Personally, I can't stand the choir "oohs" that some corps use when they double brass parts, for example.

3. Too few speakers. This one is rarely addressed, but I think it makes a big difference. The reason a soloist sticks out in our ears is because there's only one of them, right? Most corps only have two sources of amplified pit sound (I'm counting a single stack of multiple speakers as one source, because that's how we hear it), and no matter how loud you make them, it'll still sound different than a hornline that's spread out. I used to be a math major, so think of a semi-circle instead of a bi-modal distribution. Think about the difference between a hornline in two blocks separated by 50 yards, and a hornline covering the whole field. Totally different sound. Some corps opt for more speakers along the front sideline, and I think that helps the amplified sound a ton. And before you jump on me, remember that more speakers doesn't have to mean louder. Add more speakers and turn down each individual speaker, and you'll get a much more even sound, closer to the sound of a good hornline.

I also think (although this is more speculative) that it's subconsciously offputting to see a whole line of pit musicians making music, but to hear it only coming from the ends. A sort of Uncanny Valley effect. I think the goal in general should be to make the amplification as transparent as possible and create the illusion of totally unamplified sound, and having only two speaker stacks undermines that illusion.

[FlamMan]

but they won't

Exactly..& that is the real problem. DCI would be smart to chart their course in the direction that fans would like.