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A few thoughts on DCI then, now, & future...


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Alright, folks...let me start by saying I have been somewhat out of the loop with DCI over the last decade for various reasons. The last year I marched and followed DCI closely was 2003, but from time to time I catch a youtube video of a show and I am amazed at how much things have changed...some for better, some for worse. This is going to sound like a long-winded rant from an old-timer (although I'm really not that old) but I honestly want some thoughtful feedback on whether you agree or disagree.

My contention is that while DCI has never been full of so much raw talent and passion, I fear it is being overrun by an inordinate amount of props, ballet-influenced choreography, gaudy uniforms, tasteless voice-overs, musical writing that lacks creativity and originality, and shows that put too much effort into conveying completely arcane and esoteric themes rather than playing good old-fashioned MUSIC that people can relate to.

In the early 2000's, the biggest complaints you would hear from the old-timers, traditionalists, or anti-"YEA" folks were replacing G bugles with B flat horns and the mere idea of electronic amplification. It almost seems absurd looking back on it now, but it was a big deal at the time. A lot of people put up a fight, but soon everyone realized that B flats sounded light years better than G bugles and that electronic amplification could actually be used in a tasteful manner. No big deal. So how did we get to where we are today? Here's my theory: At a certain point, it almost seemed mandatory to design shows overly-doused in props, voice-overs, and ballet in fear that you would lose those precious "GE" points...and now all we have is a bunch of corps trying to out-GE one another. I hesitate to say that it's ALL bad, because some corps have used each of these elements tastefully over the last decade. Generally, I'm all for progress and new ideas, but there are certain times I just want to scream "I TOLD YOU SO!" when I hear a wildly inappropriate and tasteless voice-over, and hunt down the dark overlord who keeps punishing us with this melodramatic "new-age"-sounding music which is an outright attack on my senses at times. There is a place for that in DCI, but not every corps is capable of pulling it off like the Cavaliers did in 01-03 with their all original shows. It has to make sense within the context of the show and the music arranger still has to make it accessible to the audience...not an easy feat. It's almost as if each corps is trying to stuff in as much GE material as they can just for the sake of doing it, while losing track of the fact that the audience just wants to hear music that is melodic, LOUD, at least somewhat familiar, and most of all...memorable.

And so I throw this question to you, my fellow drum corps fans:

For those of you who remember the days before "amplification", has our worst nightmare come true? Is this simply progress, or did we open Pandora's box 10 years ago?

Pandora's box was opened wayyyyy before your marching time....Complaints have been made by the previous decades of drum corps people every year since the beginning of DCI. You may think it's more and more now BUT IMO, it's not, more props as an example condenced in a year?, maybe but there were huge props back in the 90s also.

The differences in the decades isn't anything new, theres just an internet now to voice it louder I guess.

Now one might say " yeah but it's less and less drum corps now but I also remembing hearing that back in the 70s also form the people from the pre DCI time....Hell I still hear it..lol :smile:/>/>

Funny thing is as you or we age many of us will believe ( like in most things in life ) That we were the last true signs of our activity, that we had the best of the best, that today can't compare but what many seem to forget is that time does march on( pun..lol )

There were many who came before us who paved the way to todays drum corps, if we like the direction or not and there will be others that will take what has been done now and run with it and do it their way. IMO, both deserve respect no matter what the differences.

Do I like many of the changes? No,not all, but I do believe everyone has their time and that ( all times do need to be respected. JMO :smile:

Edited by GUARDLING
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I'm ok with some synth and the change of bugles...what I'm not crazy about is all the body work stuff going on, it's WGI on the field. Especially in the drum line. I would rather you stand there and force feed notes, intimidate me and make me go WOW. All the moving around, I can't really what all they're doing. Some body movement is fine, but just some.

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Alright, folks...let me start by saying I have been somewhat out of the loop with DCI over the last decade for various reasons. The last year I marched and followed DCI closely was 2003, but from time to time I catch a youtube video of a show and I am amazed at how much things have changed...some for better, some for worse. This is going to sound like a long-winded rant from an old-timer (although I'm really not that old) but I honestly want some thoughtful feedback on whether you agree or disagree.

My contention is that while DCI has never been full of so much raw talent and passion, I fear it is being overrun by an inordinate amount of props, ballet-influenced choreography, gaudy uniforms, tasteless voice-overs, musical writing that lacks creativity and originality, and shows that put too much effort into conveying completely arcane and esoteric themes rather than playing good old-fashioned MUSIC that people can relate to.

In the early 2000's, the biggest complaints you would hear from the old-timers, traditionalists, or anti-"YEA" folks were replacing G bugles with B flat horns and the mere idea of electronic amplification. It almost seems absurd looking back on it now, but it was a big deal at the time. A lot of people put up a fight, but soon everyone realized that B flats sounded light years better than G bugles and that electronic amplification could actually be used in a tasteful manner. No big deal. So how did we get to where we are today? Here's my theory: At a certain point, it almost seemed mandatory to design shows overly-doused in props, voice-overs, and ballet in fear that you would lose those precious "GE" points...and now all we have is a bunch of corps trying to out-GE one another. I hesitate to say that it's ALL bad, because some corps have used each of these elements tastefully over the last decade. Generally, I'm all for progress and new ideas, but there are certain times I just want to scream "I TOLD YOU SO!" when I hear a wildly inappropriate and tasteless voice-over, and hunt down the dark overlord who keeps punishing us with this melodramatic "new-age"-sounding music which is an outright attack on my senses at times. There is a place for that in DCI, but not every corps is capable of pulling it off like the Cavaliers did in 01-03 with their all original shows. It has to make sense within the context of the show and the music arranger still has to make it accessible to the audience...not an easy feat. It's almost as if each corps is trying to stuff in as much GE material as they can just for the sake of doing it, while losing track of the fact that the audience just wants to hear music that is melodic, LOUD, at least somewhat familiar, and most of all...memorable.

And so I throw this question to you, my fellow drum corps fans:

For those of you who remember the days before "amplification", has our worst nightmare come true? Is this simply progress, or did we open Pandora's box 10 years ago?

Welcome back to the activity. Sounds like you are now properly up to speed on everything and can now join all of us here at DCP to voice your "concerns."

I'm sure it will result in the same feelings of satisfaction we all have, that we are the key providers of the correct directions the activity should follow.

Okay, I admit to some sarcasm...that's accepted here right?

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A lot of people put up a fight, but soon everyone realized that B flats sounded light years better than G bugles

This is a matter of personal preference, as there is no right or wrong answer of course, but the sound of a brass instrument ( soprano voice especially )keyed in the key of " G " is much deeper, richer, more sonorous than the brass instrument ( soprano ) keyed in the B flat key as this sound to my ears is more thin, and tinier, and thus to my ears less pleasant. I do understand the better functionality and compatibiity of the " Bflat " compared with the " G " with other musical ensembles and units, but the " G " for me has a more enjoyable sound by comparison, and it appears its far richer and deeper quality sound allows the sound's volume to carry at greater distance and if played in tone and in proper pitch, also is stronger in volume for the listener. Thats my personal assssment and personal preference however, and I do recognize that other sounds enter the ear passages of others differently, this making their personal assessment and preference perhaps at odds with mine ( and others )

Edited by BRASSO
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Not all top-tier chows/corps have had esoteric, uninteresting shows over the last several years, but by-and-large, the upper echelon is going in that direction. Not just BD, but they all lean in that direction for the most part, with few exceptions. Everyone is leaning that way regardless of where they sit competitively, because they want to compete at the highest level they can. I hear more and more complaints about boring show direction, over use of props and electronics, etc. But nothing will be done about it. Why?

Because none of us (me included!!) have the guts to ignore the activity for a year, or more, and use our dollars leaving the activity to make our point be heard loud and clear. If people keep going to shows, theater events, and paying for Fan Network, the folks that shape the shows we dislike will continue to go in THEIR direction.

I, like many of you I bet, continue to spend my entertainment money on the activity whenever possible, and just look past or ignore the parts I don't like. Because of this nothing will change.

Just my opinion. Thanks for letting me share it.

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Not all top-tier chows/corps have had esoteric, uninteresting shows over the last several years, but by-and-large, the upper echelon is going in that direction. Not just BD, but they all lean in that direction for the most part, with few exceptions. Everyone is leaning that way regardless of where they sit competitively, because they want to compete at the highest level they can. I hear more and more complaints about boring show direction, over use of props and electronics, etc. But nothing will be done about it. Why?

Because none of us (me included!!) have the guts to ignore the activity for a year, or more, and use our dollars leaving the activity to make our point be heard loud and clear. If people keep going to shows, theater events, and paying for Fan Network, the folks that shape the shows we dislike will continue to go in THEIR direction.

I, like many of you I bet, continue to spend my entertainment money on the activity whenever possible, and just look past or ignore the parts I don't like. Because of this nothing will change.

Just my opinion. Thanks for letting me share it.

The average age of a DCI judge is approx 60. The average age of some of the top tier show designers is approx. the same age of 55-60. I believe that these same faces we've had designing shows for the same judges that have judged their friends that design these shows for in some cases the last 40 years will slowly but surely give way to another generation of show designers and judges that will judge their shows. Things change. And what is produced in show designs and judged as superior in show design may be quite different then than what is rewarded today.Keep in mind only about 4-5 show designers of the top tier Corps drive the activity, and to be to be rewarded by a very few judges... all of whom have known one another since before any of the current MM's were even born. So the key drivers of the activity are really getting long in the tooth now, and soon we'll see retirements and with this fresh replacements. Then we'l see a fresher perspective and fresher outlook on what shall be rewarded and what less so. Thats how I see this evolving over the next decade, anyway, ie retirements.

Edited by BRASSO
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Ugh, this "Back in my day..." Post again.

Look, if you didn't follow drum corps for a period of time, why are you confused that you're lost?

Also, since when has drum corps ever been about fans first?

Also, if some of you out there are so bent out of shape about corps not being old school enough, how come Boston isn't your favorite corps? Why is Boston constantly forgotten about when they're the best at splitting old and new school?

EDIT: Add SCV to corps that stay pretty old school

Edited by JamMan
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Lets go back to pre 1980 DCI with symmetric forms. Thats when it started going downhill i say.

Sarcasm.

Electronics are relatively new. It takes some time for designers to really use them well, years of going over the line and back and you find out what the fans like and what the judges like.

If the judges want to include crowd reaction more on the sheets then they will begin focusing those GE elements more towards the fans.

And no fan ive talked to has said "i like the electronics but they were under used". Believe it or not but the people i talked to in dublin didn't hate BKs show, and didn't even laugh at the ball, despite overusing the voice over and being very artsy.

And no two corps are the same, no two corps sound the same. There really is something for everyone.

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Alright, folks...let me start by saying I have been somewhat out of the loop with DCI over the last decade for various reasons. The last year I marched and followed DCI closely was 2003, but from time to time I catch a youtube video of a show and I am amazed at how much things have changed...some for better, some for worse. This is going to sound like a long-winded rant from an old-timer (although I'm really not that old) but I honestly want some thoughtful feedback on whether you agree or disagree.

...

And so I throw this question to you, my fellow drum corps fans:

For those of you who remember the days before "amplification", has our worst nightmare come true? Is this simply progress, or did we open Pandora's box 10 years ago?

Is 1964 far enough back? I loved it when I started in 64, and I love it now. Corps have ever sounded better, performers are the best ever, and the shows are amazing. That is MHO, anyway.

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I'm out. For years I traveled all over the country (Regionals, Allentown, all Texas Shows, finals all over the country including LOS) to watch shows and this year I reluctantly went to one of our local shows in Dallas. I left angry. It was the last straw. Every year the shows become more and more ridiculous. I agree with the OP. The ballet moves by the corps are just painful to watch. I cannot even imagine what the creative folks are thinking with some of the very strange voiceovers and electronic sound effects.

At one time I coordinated a group of up to 15 people to attend our local show in Dallas. I introduced so many new fans to the activity but over the years those new fans have fallen by the way side. Especially in the last 4-5 years.

I've totally pulled by support from the activity. I log on here and lurk from time to time but I am one of those that has had enough and I'm doing my part by no longer supporting the activity financially.

I know there are those out there that enjoy the new direction of the activity. I happliy pass the torch. I will continue to lurk and hope that someday the activity will evolve into something I enjoy and if so I will be back. (but I'm not hopeful).

signing off with a broken heart in Dallas.

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