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A few thoughts on DCI then, now, & future...


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Your statement here is true and I agree with it as it applies to the whole world compared to a single individual; however... The world of 'entertainment' certainly does evolve around the paying audience; the world of 'entertainment' certainly was created to entertain the maximum number of paying audience; and DCI certainly does fit into the world of 'entertainment'. Therefore, since the survival of DCI is directly dependent on the paying public purchasing tickets and souvenirs, DCI corps certainly should cater to the paying public.

Entertainment is and ALWAYS will be a secondary or even tertiary mission for DCI. It is first and foremost an educational organization. I don't know why people don't get this, even though DCI officials say it over and over again. The experience of the people on the field will always come before the people in the stands, and that is how it should be. They (or their parents) are paying far more than 99.9% of the people in the stands ever will on the activity.

The same is true of school music programs. They aren't there to entertain the general public. They are there to provide invaluable educational opportunities to students. It would be a travesty if music programs were shut down because people weren't entertained enough by high school band concerts.

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Entertainment is and ALWAYS will be a secondary or even tertiary mission for DCI. It is first and foremost an educational organization. I don't know why people don't get this, even though DCI officials say it over and over again. The experience of the people on the field will always come before the people in the stands, and that is how it should be. They (or their parents) are paying far more than 99.9% of the people in the stands ever will on the activity.

The same is true of school music programs. They aren't there to entertain the general public. They are there to provide invaluable educational opportunities to students. It would be a travesty if music programs were shut down because people weren't entertained enough by high school band concerts.

Ok if that is your take; I have never, ever, in my whole life, as a spectator, had to purchase a ticket, and a rather large purchase at that, anywhere, for anything to see an 'educational academic' event at any elementary school, middle school, high school, college, university, or other academic institution. I have, however, purchased tickets to HS and University sports events; those sporting events may be the end result of academic physical 'education' but the events I pay to see certainly are geared for fan entertainment (and for alum donor support); I have also purchased tickets to HS and University musicals and plays; again they may be the end result of academic art 'education' but the events themselves I pay to see are designed for fan entertainment. Also, I have never paid to go see a HS or University Concert Band in the name of garnering my, or the student's for that matter, personal intellectual education; and using an example I mentioned earlier, most people would be extremely upset if they 'purchased an expensive ticket' to go see a HS or University band performance and what they witnessed was an educational academic presentation of a band performing Cage's 4:33 (a parent might make an exception to go see their son/daughter, but only for that particular exception). Moreover, what you state about the purpose of DCI is flat untrue; DCI has never been about the kids but about the performance, artistic, and competitive desires of the adults who provide a sort of service for the youth (this was the case when they formed the Combine in 1972 and is especially the case since DCI went down the road with the Major League Moniker).

Footnote: If the primary focus is on intellectual education and not on paying public entrainment (which is fine if that is the focus), do not ever expect many people to fork out disposable income to go see the event. There is a reason academic classes on the Psychology and Physiology of Sport have twenty-five paying people in the seats and the NCAA Div I Football Championship Game has hundreds of thousands of paying people in the seats.

Edited by Stu
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Ok if that is your take; I have never, ever, in my whole life, as a spectator, had to purchase a ticket, and a rather large purchase at that, anywhere, for anything to see an 'educational academic' event at any elementary school, middle school, high school, college, university, or other academic institution. I have, however, purchased tickets to HS and University sports events; those sporting events may be the end result of academic physical 'education' but the events I pay to see certainly are geared for fan entertainment (and for alum donor support); I have also purchased tickets to HS and University musicals and plays; again they may be the end result of academic art 'education' but the events themselves I pay to see are designed for fan entertainment. Also, I have never paid to go see a HS or University Concert Band in the name of garnering my, or the student's for that matter, personal intellectual education; and using an example I mentioned earlier, most people would be extremely upset if they 'purchased an expensive ticket' to go see a HS or University band performance and what they witnessed was an educational academic presentation of a band performing Cage's 4:33 (a parent might make an exception to go see their son/daughter, but only for that particular exception). Moreover, what you state about the purpose of DCI is flat untrue; DCI has never been about the kids but about the performance, artistic, and competitive desires of the adults who provide a sort of service for the youth (this was the case when they formed the Combine in 1972 and is especially the case since DCI went down the road with the Major League Moniker).

Footnote: If the primary focus is on intellectual education and not on paying public entrainment (which is fine if that is the focus), do not ever expect many people to fork out disposable income to go see the event. There is a reason academic classes on the Psychology and Physiology of Sport have twenty-five paying people in the seats and the NCAA Div I Football Championship Game has hundreds of thousands of paying people in the seats.

You seemed to miss the part where I DIDN'T say entertainment was not a part of drum corps. Of course it is. That isn't the reason why DCI exists though. The mission of DCI has very little to do with entertaining you. Just go listen to any of the DCI directors talk about DCI's goals and you will get that. The entertainment/ticket sales aspect of DCI is part of supporting the educational mission.

When the red cross has a benefit concert where they charge people $100 to get in, do they do that because they want to entertain a bunch of people? Of course not. The point is to raise money to support their primary mission. If DCI could afford to put on free shows across the country, I guarantee you they would do it. But they, of course, cannot do that. Their primary mission is not to make money or entertain fans. It is to educate people.

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You seemed to miss the part where I DIDN'T say entertainment was not a part of drum corps. Of course it is. That isn't the reason why DCI exists though. The mission of DCI has very little to do with entertaining you. Just go listen to any of the DCI directors talk about DCI's goals and you will get that. The entertainment/ticket sales aspect of DCI is part of supporting the educational mission.

When the red cross has a benefit concert where they charge people $100 to get in, do they do that because they want to entertain a bunch of people? Of course not. The point is to raise money to support their primary mission. If DCI could afford to put on free shows across the country, I guarantee you they would do it. But they, of course, cannot do that. Their primary mission is not to make money or entertain fans. It is to educate people.

a) When the Red Cross has a benefit concert charging $100 per ticket they better have great entertainment or they will not sell many tickets at the next $100 benefit concert.

b) The PGA does more for charities than any other organization; and the PGA is about making money through entertaining the sports minded which in turn sells the tickets which in turn sells sponsorships which in turn makes money for the charities.

c) If DCI was more entertaining it would garner more audience which in turn would garner more sponsorships which in turn would garner more money for the education you apparently want to continue to believe is the goal of DCI.

d) Again, however, from the 1972 Combine forming DCI all the way up through today with this Marching Major League it has never been, nor currently is, about education. Education may be a by-product; but it has been, and is, about the adults who provide those services for the youth and the activity itself. Want proof this is not 'about the kids education' but really about the adults within the activity? All real educational Hall of Fames (NCAA, State Scholastic, local high schools, etc...) are chocked full of youth performers who are inducted. Name the youth performers inducted into the DCI Hall of Fame; then name all the adults who have been inducted. Therein is the answer of what DCI has been about since the 1972 Combine.

Edited by Stu
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As it applies to the corps scoring below the G7 designing to the intellectual side, my take on that is they see the top corps being heavily rewarded on that intellectual aspect while corps going after raw emotion are not rewarded; therefore their show designs are emulative 'reaction' to what is being rewarded above them in an attempt to reach that level. And since that esoteric intellectualism is being heavily rewarded I would not put it past the Devils to take a chance and go even way past Dada in the future (see my response to your question below).

I have not seen the new DCI sheets but I have judged GE and other captions at many band and indoor competitions; and I have complied with those sheets (many of which vary in definition of GE). I agree that GE is mainly about the effectiveness the show performance has on transmitting the triad; however I cannot get myself to reward a transmission of 'all' aspects available to the human species (even if they are done correctly). For example, a number of years ago I judged Music GE at a non-circuit affiliated contest in which the title of a unit's show was Modern Art; and yes the ensemble did present an arrangement of Cage's 4:33 (I kid you not). It did not last the full 4:33 but did go long enough to garner what Cage intended. I made a comment that while music is a collection of both sound and silence, and silence as well as non-movement certainly is an effective emotional musical tool, I just could not reward their 'performance' of this Cage piece even though they presented it in the manner Cage intended. Why? Because within the realm of marching music competitions there has to be a healthy balance between the intellectual artistic education side with the reason why paying audiences are there in the first place (to be moved by the 'musical' emotions of happiness, sadness, elation, and anger not there to receive an intellectual artistic education).

one small problem. the effect judge is THE audience aimed for....the sheets are not set up to be clap awards, not should they.

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Entertainment is and ALWAYS will be a secondary or even tertiary mission for DCI. It is first and foremost an educational organization. I don't know why people don't get this, even though DCI officials say it over and over again. The experience of the people on the field will always come before the people in the stands, and that is how it should be. They (or their parents) are paying far more than 99.9% of the people in the stands ever will on the activity.

The same is true of school music programs. They aren't there to entertain the general public. They are there to provide invaluable educational opportunities to students. It would be a travesty if music programs were shut down because people weren't entertained enough by high school band concerts.

well.......schools don't charge DCI prices. And if people don't buy tickets, DCI's educating a lot less kids

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one small problem. the effect judge is THE audience aimed for....

That is not one small problem; that is one HUGE problem. a) the judge is getting paid to be there while the audience is paying big bucks to be there, and if the paying public is not engaged in enjoying the effect of the winning corps the audience will eventually dwindle and the ability to pay the judge will eventually go bye-bye; b) if the sheets are about performing to the judge and the judge only, a corps such as the Devils could do a full version of Cage's 4:33, and if performed properly as Cage intended they should max out all caption sheets; and c) if the judge is 'The' audience, irrespective of how poorly the winning show is received by all others, then DCI might as well just go to the empty room scenario with just the judges present just like most HS Concert Band contests that take place during a school day.

...the sheets are not set up to be clap awards, nor should they.

Never said it should 'always' be about the clap. I said GE judging should not heavily fall on the side of rewarding esoteric intellectualism, which elicit the golf claps, at a far greater rate than raw emotion, which elicit the explosions.

Edited by Stu
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That is not one small problem; that is one HUGE problem. a) the judge is getting paid to be there while the audience is paying big bucks to be there, and if the paying public is not engaged in enjoying the effect of the winning corps the audience will eventually dwindle and the ability to pay the judge will eventually go bye-bye; b) if the sheets are about performing to the judge and the judge only, a corps such as the Devils could do a full version of Cage's 4:33, and if performed properly as Cage intended they should max out all caption sheets; and c) if the judge is 'The' audience, irrespective of how poorly the winning show is received by all others, then DCI might as well just go to the empty room scenario with just the judges present just like most HS Concert Band contests that take place during a school day.

Never said it should 'always' be about the clap. I said GE judging should not heavily fall on the side of rewarding esoteric intellectualism, which elicit the golf claps, at a far greater rate than raw emotion, which elicit the explosions.

People have been complaining about championship shows for years and years... Doesn't seem to be effecting the amount of fans that buy tickets.

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You have to remember that this summer a whole bunch of new kids went to a show and got their minds blown. They saw something they never thought possible or could imagine. And some of them will go on to live the dream and have the experience of a lifetime. They come from a world on 1000 channel TV, short you tube clips, and electronics everywhere including their music. Where you see a problem, they find delight.

At the same time their are old timers saying; "That's it! Dancing, gaudy uniforms, I don't know the music.......". That's what I heard when I marched in the 80s, that's what I hear now. One gen leaves, another comes in. Same as it ever was. Some can only connect with some aspects of the activity and their appreciation never grows beyond that. That's okay. Others, like myself, are hopelessly hooked on the basic formula of brass, percussion, and guard as well as the joy of the performers. That's okay to.

Drum Corps esthetics change. Audiences change as well. Everyone decides where he or she doesn't enjoy something anymore. That doesn't mean that it is wrong, just to different for them. To another newer fan, this is a golden age full of new and wonderful things.

Edited by mchromik
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Entertainment is and ALWAYS will be a secondary or even tertiary mission for DCI. It is first and foremost an educational organization. I don't know why people don't get this, even though DCI officials say it over and over again. The experience of the people on the field will always come before the people in the stands, and that is how it should be. They (or their parents) are paying far more than 99.9% of the people in the stands ever will on the activity. Public schools are q great model. They can show up for their music assessments, with 3 judges with just about 10 percent of the parents there. Smart guy....who is going to pay the stadium rental, lights, and the travel bills??? The judges? It is about the public and entertainment.  That is educational point number 1.

The same is true of school music programs. They aren't there to entertain the general public. They are there to provide invaluable educational opportunities to students. It would be a travesty if music programs were shut down because people weren't entertained enough by high school band concerts.

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