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Hostrauser's Incredibly Unpopular DCI Quarterfinals Opinions


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I think it was easier to do the primitive monkey dance than to march a formation with a contra, do you think otherwise?

Why?

I think it’s easier because I have marched and have done the primitive monkey dance (or similar) so it’s entirely based upon my opinion due to my experience so somewhat subjective perhaps

Have you done the primitive monkey dance?

Go ahead, give it shot and do the primitive monkey dance

Cool... I'll go grab 12 high school kids and teach them a drill move or 2 in 15 minutes,

Then I'll teach them a "monkey dance", with proper technique, while connecting at the same level as Blue Devils. That will take me a season.

I have a much better shoot with the drill. And for what it's worth I do design and instruct. I can, unlike yourself, tell you that drill is easier to teach and clean then dance.

Your ignorance does not equal knowledge, it simply means you're ignorant.

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Thank you, my ignorance is outstanding but I’m curious if you are familiar with the contras’ primitive monkey dance that I referenced?

Towards the backside of the field some of them, (6 maybe?) squat down on, arms on each other and do a circle dance? Not to be confused with when they set their horns on the circle at the center of the field and run around. I’d say it’s dance technique draws greatly from the NFL as I’ve seen similar as a defensive hype.

I don't have FN so I can't give you the time stamp, perhaps another can

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It's like you took this from 2003 and replaced Cavalier with Blue Devils.

Seriously... I remember there was somebody that sat with a stop watched and counted the non movement in shows, down to the second.

... I remember that too.

Same person ( or group of people) complained about all the "rolling around on the field" the Cavaliers were doing in 2007.

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Since when did we relate Visual Effect to "Drill"? If drill is the effect, there is no effect to "holds"?

Visual Effect (IMO) is the way the group moves around the stage through space. I know that sounds intellectual, but you have to think of it in that realm.

I'm know that Theatrical Staging is "new" to the drum corps world, but it's not to those that understand WGI. (Oh No, not another WGI is influencing Drum Corp post)

Theatrical staging is similar to a Scatter Drill of the 1990's - except the performer isn't a stiff military cadet.

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I do not agree with your contention that it is easier to perform. At all.

Then we simply disagree :cool:

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Since when did we relate Visual Effect to "Drill"? If drill is the effect, there is no effect to "holds"?

Visual Effect (IMO) is the way the group moves around the stage through space. I know that sounds intellectual, but you have to think of it in that realm.

I'm know that Theatrical Staging is "new" to the drum corps world, but it's not to those that understand WGI. (Oh No, not another WGI is influencing Drum Corp post)

Theatrical staging is similar to a Scatter Drill of the 1990's - except the performer isn't a stiff military cadet.

When does drum corps stop being drum corps and become outdoor performance art?

Crown also has body movement (some harder than BD) but it is integrated in the context of what we think of as traditional drill.

What BD is doing is an entirely different paradigm. Why is it considered more effective than pushing the limits of traditional styles?

The best analogy I can come up with is classical music in the early 20th century. Schoenberg created a whole new musical paradigm with 12 tone music. It was intellectual and everyone thought it was the future of art music. Was it better? IMHO no. While at the same time Mahler was taking romanticism to its extremes, and some people consider that among the best music ever written.

Just because something is different and thought provoking, does not mean its better.

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You are right...but here is my problem, how do you comparably judge one corps who is so fundamentally different from everyone else? I feel they are being rewarded because they are different and in a way that punishes corps who have taken the traditional ideas of visual design to new heights. No matter how you slice it BDs visual show is easier to perform relative to the other top tier corps (and that DOES NOT mean it is easy in and of itself) why should they be deemed better automatically because they are different.

This is ALMOST exactly how I feel. I'm not even sure I could go this far though. I wanted to write a big long review of finals weekend, from sitting on the 50 yard line in the highest section - and of course that would have included a nice long section on the constant BD debate.

But...i dont have time right now

That said, i do often get the impression that BD's brand of different often equals "better" in the judges' minds. I wont even go as far as to say its easier, although i do personally think it is sometimes, but I sure as hell am not qualified truly judge all of that. I also disagree with folks that say it is in the bottom end of the top 12 in terms of difficulty. Maybe 3rd or 4th hardest, if I was pressed to give a number. There is something to be said for the 'judge-ability' and exposure of complex flag exchanges and unified drill moves, vs a flag exchange where equipment is just tossed onto the field and picked up later, or a drill that is largely unreadable with some scattered exceptions where they say "SEE! We can do this too!"

Again - I dont hate the Blue Devils, and I didn't hate this show. I actually liked it, and found myself defending it to other folks in my group. My favorite show from them since 2010...in fact I may like it more. Without really knowing the source material well, I could pick up on a few themes, and I even took the time to watch their mediabox show design stuff - something ive never done for them, and didn't do for anyone else this year. I dont think they are death to drum corps, and I dont think it was the easiest show on the field. I also dont think their show design is going to somehow ruin drum corps. I just think that, in general, they get a tiny bit too much credit for doing certain things...thats all. In fact, I think 2nd place is exactly where they belonged this year, so no major complaints there. Just a general opinion over the past 6 years of dominance.

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There's no real structure to this, I'm just commenting on the stuff I feel like commenting on after watching the theater event.

E-SARN: Loved it. Fantastic addition to the end of the show. Would love to see them do another exhibition at Finals before awards, in front of a full house.

TROUBLING TREND: There were many DCI corps this year that had HALF of a great show. It seems like the show designers came up with this really awesome idea, and front-loaded the show so that the first 5-6 minutes were just incredible and amazing. But then we got to the point of development and resolution and the inspiration fairy fluttered away while giving them a two-fisted "rigid digit" salute. Too many corps followed up an impressive first half of a show with a fairly uninspired, drum corps-by-the-numbers second half, as if they either (a) didn't know how to wrap the show up, or (b) were just going down the Standard DCI Checklist for What Scores Well and checking off boxes. The G7 corps were not immune from this plague, either. I don't want to name names, but if you think of the University of Virginia, West Point, and old Leroy Anderson pops pieces you might figure it out.

YAY: Troopers. Chalk one up for "wasn't expecting to like, but did." As a drum corps fan I'm pretty much late-80s and beyond: I hold little to no nostalgia for much that is "old school." Westerns aren't my thing. Which is why I was quite shocked at how effective Troop's "Sunburst" was to me this year. Good job implementing old school homages into a modern drum corps show. I really liked how this corps performed and am surprised they aren't scoring closer to Blue Stars and Spirit.

MEH: Blue Knights. Really interesting show concept and excellent visual design. But the musical design never hooked me like last year's show did. Also, what's with that new ending? It's an ending. In a show called "NoBeginningNoEnd". Didn't care for it.

YAY: Madison Scouts. I'd actually been dreading seeing this show for the first time. I just didn't see a way for a G.I. Bro show to not be schmaltzy and manipulative, going for the easy, obvious tugs at the heartstrings instead of adding depth and meaning (see also: 2002 Cadets). But it wasn't that bad. I liked the way the Mussorgsky was woven in, often present but rarely out in front. Parts of the show were a little cheesy, but just because it's cheesy doesn't mean it's NOT effective.

MEH: Cavaliers. I wanted to like them, and for five minutes or so I really did. But then I got bored, and the show did nothing to pull me back in. It tried, with the great Michael Giaccino music, but as soon as they quoted it they would wander off and do something else. The visual design is much better this year but, and this has been glaringly apparent the past two years, this corps has had a real problem with musical cohesiveness and development since Saucedo left.

YAY and MEH: Phantom Regiment. My favorite corps disappointed me a little. Great concept, great source music, great beginning, but then... meh. The last half of the show just seemed rote, to me, it lacked the emotional pull of Spartacus, Juliet, or Turandot. I mean, of course the evil queen was going to be vanquished, but there's just didn't seem to be any REAL threat or draw towards conflict for the viewer. The Shostakovich piece seemed an ill match to the show and the "tag-on" ending felt very forced, like "Awp, time to wrap this up in a neat little bow."

YAY and MEH: Santa Clara Vanguard. Okay, I don't care for the source music, but I did like the arrangements (even if the tempos were taken all the way up to "ludicrous speed"). But come on, folks, this is a cotton candy show, with just about as much substance. It reminds me of 1991 Phantom, actually: it's fun, enjoyable... and it's also already maxed out, and nowhere near deserving of 1st place.

YAY and MEH: The Cadets. Loved, loved, loved Symphony No. 1, how much they used of it, and how it was worked into the show. Fantastic. On the other hand, Medea was a mess. Just a few chop-n-bop segments and quotations, never allowed to develop or contribute like the Symphony and Adagio did. The soft ending didn't bother me, but the lead into it did. The six note pattern at the end of Medea that builds into a furious climax they neutered, turning it from a crescendo into a decrescendo, and hammering that square peg into that round hole until they reached the Adagio again. Sorry Mr. Bocook, DCI Hall of Famer or no, that Medea-to-Adagio progression at the end of the show is just plain bad writing.

YAY: Carolina Crown. DAT BRASS. I sure wish Michael Klesch was more harmonically adventurous, though. Crown does one thing far better than any other DCI corps (fast runs, brass articulation technique)... but that's all they do, over and over and over. It's fun to listen to, though. I think this is the best designed show on the field this summer, and SHOULD win the DCI title, but you know how those judges are. Crown's percussion started the season rough, and the judges are still penalizing them for it. IMO, they've caught up and passed the drumlines from Scouts, Cavaliers, and MAYBE even Bluecoats. Vanguard, Cadets, and Devils are still clearly better, but this Crown drumline should probably be 4th, maybe 5th at worst right now.

?6MfWz2#Q!?: Blue Devils. People talk about comparing apples and oranges, but that's not quite right. It's more like comparing a bowl of assorted fruit (the rest of DCI) and a talking octopus throwing bricks at the fine china (Blue Devils). The Blue Devils are fundamentally different from every other DCI corps (for better AND for worse). Every other corps treats the visual book as drill and guard for the skeleton, then body movement, dance, and other flourishes as the meat and skin that's added to the skeleton to make it look real. The Blue Devils toss all of the elements in a blender, then make a funkadelic visual golem out of the resulting putty. They both LOOK and ACT like visual programs, but they are fundamentally different to their very cores. Sure, the Blue Devils' drill is once again the easiest of the Top 3 or 4: lots of follow the leader, block forms, and scatter. But while the DRILL demands on the performers might be less, the overall VISUAL demand is not. The scope and variety of different elements going on simultaneously but working together to form a cohesive visual program in the Blue Devils' show is staggering. The field coverage and utilization of space is incredible. Musically, the drumline has been the strength of this corps for most of the past five years. But there's significant brass difficulty here, too. The harmonics of Stravinsky have not been watered down, placing tremendous demand on the performers to have a unified concept and execution of tone and intonation. It can be very difficult to make dissonance sound correct and not like a mistake and, far from just dipping their toes in this pool, the Blue Devils' horn book stays in this challenging area for pretty much the entirety. In terms of chord structures and ensemble harmonics, BD has the toughest show on the field. And, while they might not have the audacious runs of Crown, there were more than a few complex jazz syncopations that require an almost hive-mind like approach to articulation. So, yeah, Blue Devils. I'm not sure they should win, but there's no way they're not one of the Top 2 corps this year. Again. I like it, I'm not sure I like it, I don't want to like it, I don't like it, and I really, really respect it. All of these are true, all at the same time.

You are free to disagree with anything I've said here and be wrong. :closedeyes:/>

You sure ended up being spot on about Troopers needing to score closer to Blue Stars and Spirit! Just too bad the judges couldn't let Troop at least tie one of them!

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