Hostrauser's Incredibly Unpopular DCI Quarterfinals Opinions

[Plan9]

This drills down to the core of what the BD have figured out. Keep the judgeable drill simpler so you can execute the visible portions. Don't play the more difficult passages of your brass or percussion books while on the move (like Crown and Cadets do). Yes, there are a variety of different elements going on all the time, but these are the smoke and mirrors of the Blue Devils program. Because all the elements are different, they may look really cool, they may act and emote very well, but how on earth is a judge supposed to score the execution on it? How are they supposed to look at ten people doing ten different things and determine if they are doing any of them right? In this manner they are hiding their mistakes. Do they have a few difficult drill moments here and there? Sure. But look closer. They aren't playing music when they execute them. They've been doing this sort of thing now for the last four years at least. I'm still trying to figure out how they get awarded the points they do for the difficulty of their program on an equal level to Crown and Cadets when they are doing this. The fans can see what they are doing, why can't the judges? And in the end it still wouldn't matter as much to the bulk of the crowd if they still did alll this and won, IF they would just make an effort to entertain the way they used to instead of morphing into the obscure modern art form they have become.

You can certainly have your opinion...but this is a poor representation of what is actually going on in a BD program. And by poor I mean, not so thinly veiled hyperbole. This kind of deep seeded angry diatribe disguised as some insightful revelation of BD's calculated strategy to fool the judges and steal the title is just more of the same misplaced and unnecessary jealousy of this remarkable organization. How interesting it is that not a single judge in DCI (you know, the same ones that awarded the title to a deserving CC last night) shares your deep insights.....you are beyond clever. But as you say, you and "the fans" (and apparently you must have the pulse of DCI available somehow) have figured out this devious scheme and the dumb ### judges haven't. Your post then, will go on record as a wake up call to all the DCI judges to pay attention to MartinO who is crying out in the wilderness for some justice and strike down the evil, diabolical and apparently fake BD. As for me, I'll stay with the OP's comments, he actually has cred and has no superficial agenda.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Plan9

[Lead]

Crown has the best designed show this year by a wide margin, this is the third time in 5 years I feel this to be the case....I think its about time Crown finally wins. Crown performs the hell out of VERY difficult drill and yet still loses to BD which has comparably VERY easy drill.

Show me the DRILL box on the recap, and I will agree... But alas, the second category after General Effect is VISUAL (which, by the way, Crown won). BD won Visual GE, but Crown won the Visual caption overall, which I think explains and reinforces the crux of this argument.

[ContraFart]

Show me the DRILL box on the recap, and I will agree... But alas, the second category after General Effect is VISUAL (which, by the way, Crown won). BD won Visual GE, but Crown won the Visual caption overall, which I think explains and reinforces the crux of this argument.

by your logic the corps that marches perfect 8 to 5 box drill up and down the field (ala Texas A&M) will win visual analysis and the corps with the most props and toys on the field will win GE visual.

All I am saying is that the main core of a visual program which is the drill should at least have its difficulty level taken into account. Minus all of the other elements BD has some of the easiest drill in the top 12. I dont think adding the elements in to that drill design makes the visual program as hard as all of the BD fans says it is. I am not saying its easy, but relative to Crown and Cadets it is.

I am actually ok with BD winning GE visual because that encompasses the whole corps including their amazing colorguard. (I was a big fan of the semi circles.) If BD wins every title while being 4th or 5th in visual analysis, I think my argument would be moot....but Crown won so my argument IS moot....at least for this season.

[CloudHype]

by your logic the corps that marches perfect 8 to 5 box drill up and down the field (ala Texas A&M) will win visual analysis and the corps with the most props and toys on the field will win GE visual.

All I am saying is that the main core of a visual program which is the drill should at least have its difficulty level taken into account. Minus all of the other elements BD has some of the easiest drill in the top 12. I dont think adding the elements in to that drill design makes the visual program as hard as all of the BD fans says it is. I am not saying its easy, but relative to Crown and Cadets it is.

I am actually ok with BD winning GE visual because that encompasses the whole corps including their amazing colorguard. (I was a big fan of the semi circles.) If BD wins every title while being 4th or 5th in visual analysis, I think my argument would be moot....but Crown won so my argument IS moot....at least for this season.

Most corps can't do a pile uniformly across the ensemble much less have a developed dance vocabulary. No corps, even Crown (Who's design I liked better FWIW) can connect as performers "visually" like Blue Devils members do. Yes, it is hard and it adds to the difficulty. People are clinging to drill because it is easy to understand, we all have done it. We know 220 bpm and 8 count moves at a 6-5 is hard but have no clue about a passé turn or a jeté. Not many of us have any experience with theatrical staging or dance or teaching members how to connect from a visual standpoint. If it was easier, high schools will be doing it but they aren't... because it's really freaking hard but in a different way.

[CloudHype]

This drills down to the core of what the BD have figured out. Keep the judgeable drill simpler so you can execute the visible portions. Don't play the more difficult passages of your brass or percussion books while on the move (like Crown and Cadets do). Yes, there are a variety of different elements going on all the time, but these are the smoke and mirrors of the Blue Devils program. Because all the elements are different, they may look really cool, they may act and emote very well, but how on earth is a judge supposed to score the execution on it? How are they supposed to look at ten people doing ten different things and determine if they are doing any of them right? In this manner they are hiding their mistakes. Do they have a few difficult drill moments here and there? Sure. But look closer. They aren't playing music when they execute them. They've been doing this sort of thing now for the last four years at least. I'm still trying to figure out how they get awarded the points they do for the difficulty of their program on an equal level to Crown and Cadets when they are doing this. The fans can see what they are doing, why can't the judges? And in the end it still wouldn't matter as much to the bulk of the crowd if they still did alll this and won, IF they would just make an effort to entertain the way they used to instead of morphing into the obscure modern art form they have become.

It's like you took this from 2003 and replaced Cavalier with Blue Devils.

Seriously... I remember there was somebody that sat with a stop watched and counted the non movement in shows, down to the second.

[N.E. Brigand]

No corps, even Crown (whose design I liked better, FWIW) can connect as performers "visually" like Blue Devils members do. Yes, it is hard and it adds to the difficulty. People are clinging to drill because it is easy to understand, we all have done it. We know 220 bpm and 8-count moves at a 6-to-5 is hard but have no clue about a passé turn or a jeté. Not many of us have any experience with theatrical staging or dance or teaching members how to connect from a visual standpoint. If it was easier, high schools will be doing it but they aren't... because it's really freaking hard but in a different way.

Connect to whom? Or to what?

And how many of the DCI visual judges have been trained in critiquing ballet moves?

For my part, I have no objection to dance steps being substituted for traditional drill, as long as the great majority of it happens while the corps is playing, and as long as it's done in some sort of uniform or sequential way whose effect can be assessed.

[CloudHype]

Connect to whom? Or to what?

And how many of the DCI visual judges have been trained in critiquing ballet moves?

For my part, I have no objection to dance steps being substituted for traditional drill, as long as the great majority of it happens while the corps is playing, and as long as it's done in some sort of uniform or sequential way whose effect can be assessed.

Connect to the box. I can sit up top and they emote that high up. You know that swagger they have? That's just a part of it. Just like reaching the box musically, you need to reach the box visually.

As far as judges with training, considering their backgrounds, about every one will have experience with it. Most are designers too or have extensive guard backgrounds and if you are designing or instructing, you know good from bad. It's really not that hard to tell if the members are committed to what they are doing.

Edited August 12, 2013 by CloudHype

[MikeD]

by your logic the corps that marches perfect 8 to 5 box drill up and down the field (ala Texas A&M) will win visual analysis and the corps with the most props and toys on the field will win GE visual.

All I am saying is that the main core of a visual program which is the drill should at least have its difficulty level taken into account. Minus all of the other elements BD has some of the easiest drill in the top 12. I dont think adding the elements in to that drill design makes the visual program as hard as all of the BD fans says it is. I am not saying its easy, but relative to Crown and Cadets it is.

I am actually ok with BD winning GE visual because that encompasses the whole corps including their amazing colorguard. (I was a big fan of the semi circles.) If BD wins every title while being 4th or 5th in visual analysis, I think my argument would be moot....but Crown won so my argument IS moot....at least for this season.

Well, in both of the visual performance captions, BD was first in Content/Composition at finals.

In fact, of the 6 judged captions in all three nights, BD was first on 4 of 6 of the above captions, and 2nd to Crown on two. Throw in DCI East and they were first on 6 of 8 of the sheets. So to say they had "some of the easiest drill in the top 12" doesn't really fly with the evaluations by many different people. The one judge who appeared twice on the shows I looked at actually had BD 1st once and 2nd once, so that means 6 different people had BD first in the four shows in the captions that would encompass the demand of their visual show.

[mellophonium]

Minus all of the other elements BD has some of the easiest drill in the top 12. I dont think adding the elements in to that drill design makes the visual program as hard as all of the BD fans says it is. I am not saying its easy, but relative to Crown and Cadets it is.

You have no idea what you're talking about and it's obvious.

[cixelsyd]

Another double standard that exists on DCP is the lack of any comment about Bluecoats use of the stands this year. BTW....I love them and they are used masterfully. But back in 2009, DCP had posters saying "how can BD get scored so high, when all they do is sit?" and on and on about how easy it is to just sit and not have to march.....BUT this year.....not a single comment about Bluecoats sitting.....zippo! And I'm glad about that.......but DCP should apply the same judgement to BD that they do with every corps.

The difference is that Bluecoats were not being touted by their supporters specifically for how incredibly innovative and demanding it is to stand on chairs or bleachers, and that they should be leading the entire DCI competitive field as a result.