The staff merrigoround

[GUARDLING]

Since some have noticed that this could get shifted away from the thread topic, I will continue to relate this to staff stability. The Devils staff have been stable, not because they please the crowd, but because they please the judges. They write for the judges; they instruct toward the judges; they focus on winning the ring. Fine, if that is what they desire, and they do have 15 rings to show for it. And DCI is a competition; also fine. And other corps have been attempting to secure staff who can gel in the same manner as the Devils, causing the revolving door scenario, which I think is also fine. What I do not think is fine is that somewhere along the line those outside the esoteric (ie staff/judges), such as the majority of the paying audience, have gotten not only ignored but completely thrown out of the equation of design choices. Many corps design choices today, not all, but those who want to win seem to be bent on emulating how the Devils design toward the, true use of the word, esoteric (designs directed and written for a small group of select few, the judges). I am not going the 'it was better in my day' route here, but when the paying public, majority of which are not music or art majors, are treated at best as students to be educated by the 'high art' professors of drum corps, and at worse as completely irrelevant, something is skewed way out of proportion.

iknow these people personally and they do think they are designing things that will appeal..( not just for judges ) there were many parts of their show this year that had that Big jazzy sound..( back to their roots sound wise ) a unique BD sound..was it channel One? no...The staff I believe want to move forward in a contemporary way. Will it appeal to the majority? no of course not does Spirit with that type of show ? I dont believe it appeals to many either ( no knock on Spirit Just an example on the opposite side of the spectrum )

Will BD ever return and do a throw back to the BITD BD ..yes I believe its coming soon...if not just to throw the public into a frenzy and then after that move on to what they truly want to do or be.

[Stu]

iknow these people personally and they do think they are designing things that will appeal..( not just for judges ) there were many parts of their show this year that had that Big jazzy sound..( back to their roots sound wise ) a unique BD sound..was it channel One? no...The staff I believe want to move forward in a contemporary way. Will it appeal to the majority? no of course not does Spirit with that type of show ? I dont believe it appeals to many either ( no knock on Spirit Just an example on the opposite side of the spectrum )

Will BD ever return and do a throw back to the BITD BD ..yes I believe its coming soon...if not just to throw the public into a frenzy and then after that move on to what they truly want to do or be.

Appeal to whom? Very, and I mean Very contemporary arranging styles with hints, not many as you contend, but just hints at some jazzy swing sound within a few Rite of Spring motifs appeal to whom? Tens of thousands of non-artistic minded fans shelling out the big bucks to get entertained; nope. Appeal to a small select few intellectual people who want to see and hear that artistic progression combined with the desire by the staff to 'educate' the rest of the masses in the progression of the art form; yep. And as long as this intellectual engagement of the high-art minded is what is highly rewarded via GE the Devils staff will continue to write that way; and if the GE engagement interpretation shifts toward the entertainment of the non-artistic minded audience the Devils staff have the unique ability to shift accordingly; that is the main reason the Devils staff have not been involved in the revolving door of the merrigorund as well as why they have those 15 rings.

[GUARDLING]

Appeal to whom? Very, and I mean Very contemporary arranging styles with hints, not many as you contend, but just hints at some jazzy swing sound within a few Rite of Spring motifs appeal to whom? Tens of thousands of non-artistic minded fans shelling out the big bucks to get entertained; nope. Appeal to a small select few intellectual people who want to see and hear that artistic progression combined with the desire by the staff to 'educate' the rest of the masses in the progression of the art form; yep. And as long as this intellectual engagement of the high-art minded is what is highly rewarded via GE the Devils staff will continue to write that way; and if the GE engagement interpretation shifts toward the entertainment of the non-artistic minded audience the Devils staff have the unique ability to shift accordingly; that is the main reason the Devils staff have not been involved in the revolving door of the merrigorund as well as why they have those 15 rings.

well we agree on 1 thing BD will adapt no matter what judging happens to be..and that in itself is a huge accomplishment many would love to have

I guess with the #s that just came out BD didnt keep fans from coming....so there must be enough others like...whewwwwww..the world is whole again.....

Edited August 21, 2013 by GUARDLING

[actucker]

I'll say it again, and then I'm done because this conversation has very little to do with the original topic.

If you can't see that Devils have been in a league of their own in terms of visual effect the past few years, I don't know how else to explain it. No. The rest of the top three have not been comparable in terms of performance. You may not like WHAT they are doing, but HOW WELL they are doing it can't really be argued.

In terms of music effect, the same can be said for Crown. Some don't like that they are all about brass, but the four Ott awards in a row seem to say that they are accomplishing what they are setting out to do.

The past two years have been a very two sided race. Crown and Devils have stood above the rest of the pack with very little legitimate competition in terms of performance quality. While each brings a different set of skills to the table, they stand apart at the moment. I don't really see how anyone could possibly argue that any one else should be winning effect over the two of them.

The group that everyone likes isn't always going to be the group that performs the best. Emotional engagement is only a third of the sheet. The people buying tickets to be entertained are still being entertained. When I was a kid, my parents took me to see Michael Jordan because he was the best basketball player in the game. He was far and away the most fun to watch, and at the time was also the most popular player. That didn't mean that I had any right to be upset if he didn't win the game. Conversely, LeBron James is among the most hated players in the league. That doesn't stop him from also being one of the best in the game. He has a right to play basketball too.

As for staff changes, I think its going to be an interesting off season. With some sweeping changes at Regiment, we could see an entirely different corps from them next season. I'm still interested to see what happens at Crown. While I don't attribute their percussive struggles entirely to their instructional staff (I think the way they choose to design shows makes it difficult to feature percussion, and thus draw strong percussionists), I'm interested to see if they make a move their simply due to the recaps. Bluecoats look like their moving in a different direction visually, which could be interesting as well as I think their musical direction has been really solid the last decade or so.

Lots of interesting things going on. Any word on Cavaliers? Haven't heard much from that camp so far this offseason.

[GUARDLING]

I'll say it again, and then I'm done because this conversation has very little to do with the original topic.

If you can't see that Devils have been in a league of their own in terms of visual effect the past few years, I don't know how else to explain it. No. The rest of the top three have not been comparable in terms of performance. You may not like WHAT they are doing, but HOW WELL they are doing it can't really be argued.

In terms of music effect, the same can be said for Crown. Some don't like that they are all about brass, but the four Ott awards in a row seem to say that they are accomplishing what they are setting out to do.

The past two years have been a very two sided race. Crown and Devils have stood above the rest of the pack with very little legitimate competition in terms of performance quality. While each brings a different set of skills to the table, they stand apart at the moment. I don't really see how anyone could possibly argue that any one else should be winning effect over the two of them.

The group that everyone likes isn't always going to be the group that performs the best. Emotional engagement is only a third of the sheet. The people buying tickets to be entertained are still being entertained. When I was a kid, my parents took me to see Michael Jordan because he was the best basketball player in the game. He was far and away the most fun to watch, and at the time was also the most popular player. That didn't mean that I had any right to be upset if he didn't win the game. Conversely, LeBron James is among the most hated players in the league. That doesn't stop him from also being one of the best in the game. He has a right to play basketball too.

As for staff changes, I think its going to be an interesting off season. With some sweeping changes at Regiment, we could see an entirely different corps from them next season. I'm still interested to see what happens at Crown. While I don't attribute their percussive struggles entirely to their instructional staff (I think the way they choose to design shows makes it difficult to feature percussion, and thus draw strong percussionists), I'm interested to see if they make a move their simply due to the recaps. Bluecoats look like their moving in a different direction visually, which could be interesting as well as I think their musical direction has been really solid the last decade or so.

Lots of interesting things going on. Any word on Cavaliers? Haven't heard much from that camp so far this offseason.

agree...

I also think you may see some staff changes in some of the 10-14 corps

[Stu]

...You may not like WHAT they are doing, but HOW WELL they are doing it can't really be argued...

You certainly can have disagreements on performance quality, with both parties being correct, and here is why: Evaluating how 'well' someone is doing at something is just mere 'opinion'. Just like the definition and interpretation of the word engagement is mere 'opinion'. The scoring of captions in DCI is mere 'opinion'. This is not a competition like the 100-yard dash where the fastest time wins the gold; it is a subjective outcome based contest where everything is grounded in 'opinion'. And this is proven time and time again when there are two very competent, very well educated, judges evaluating the same caption (ie both judging Visual GE) yet coming to two different scoring conclusions. The Devils staff know this is all mere 'opinion' with the judges 'opinions' being the only ones which really matters to winning the rings; thus they design to the judges 'opinions'; they also have the unique ability to adjust quickly to the judges changing 'opinions'; and that is why they have not been a part of the revolving door staff merrigoround.

[bluecoats88]

in 1990 one of the Bluecoats keyboard players wrote the pit book for limited edition. She did this while she was still a member of the bluecoats, and she also won the keyboard I&E competition and got the highest score in I&E.

[CrownStarr]

I'll say it again, and then I'm done because this conversation has very little to do with the original topic.

If you can't see that Devils have been in a league of their own in terms of visual effect the past few years, I don't know how else to explain it. No. The rest of the top three have not been comparable in terms of performance. You may not like WHAT they are doing, but HOW WELL they are doing it can't really be argued.

In terms of music effect, the same can be said for Crown. Some don't like that they are all about brass, but the four Ott awards in a row seem to say that they are accomplishing what they are setting out to do.

The past two years have been a very two sided race. Crown and Devils have stood above the rest of the pack with very little legitimate competition in terms of performance quality. While each brings a different set of skills to the table, they stand apart at the moment. I don't really see how anyone could possibly argue that any one else should be winning effect over the two of them.

The group that everyone likes isn't always going to be the group that performs the best. Emotional engagement is only a third of the sheet. The people buying tickets to be entertained are still being entertained. When I was a kid, my parents took me to see Michael Jordan because he was the best basketball player in the game. He was far and away the most fun to watch, and at the time was also the most popular player. That didn't mean that I had any right to be upset if he didn't win the game. Conversely, LeBron James is among the most hated players in the league. That doesn't stop him from also being one of the best in the game. He has a right to play basketball too.

As for staff changes, I think its going to be an interesting off season. With some sweeping changes at Regiment, we could see an entirely different corps from them next season. I'm still interested to see what happens at Crown. While I don't attribute their percussive struggles entirely to their instructional staff (I think the way they choose to design shows makes it difficult to feature percussion, and thus draw strong percussionists), I'm interested to see if they make a move their simply due to the recaps. Bluecoats look like their moving in a different direction visually, which could be interesting as well as I think their musical direction has been really solid the last decade or so.

Lots of interesting things going on. Any word on Cavaliers? Haven't heard much from that camp so far this offseason.

My gut, knowing the corps and the people involved, says that staff changes (at least at the design/caption head level) won't happen, and aren't the solution. But crazier things have happened.

[cixelsyd]

I'll say it again, and then I'm done because this conversation has very little to do with the original topic.

If you can't see that Devils have been in a league of their own in terms of visual effect the past few years, I don't know how else to explain it. No. The rest of the top three have not been comparable in terms of performance. You may not like WHAT they are doing, but HOW WELL they are doing it can't really be argued.

Oh? You had better talk to the judges, then, because there were quite a few of them who picked someone else 1st in GE visual in 2013 shows, even as recently as semifinals.

In terms of music effect, the same can be said for Crown. Some don't like that they are all about brass, but the four Ott awards in a row seem to say that they are accomplishing what they are setting out to do.

The past two years have been a very two sided race. Crown and Devils have stood above the rest of the pack with very little legitimate competition in terms of performance quality. While each brings a different set of skills to the table, they stand apart at the moment. I don't really see how anyone could possibly argue that any one else should be winning effect over the two of them.

Remember when Crown was slumping a bit mid-season, and Cadets beat them in GE music in San Antonio? Apparently, an argument could be (and was) made then.

None of these corps are in a league of their own. Back in June, Crown even beat BD in percussion performance.

[theCHEZman]

Now that CROWN won the ultimate prize, when do we expect to see flight of staff? SCV has deep pockets and is probably licking her chops to get that brass staff to compliment that percussion team taken from PR. Once you win, there is only one other direction to go..