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Can someone explain the G Bugles?


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This topic will really show my ignorance, but that's why I'm asking. I see a lot of mention of G bugles occasionally in forums. From what I've read it seems that in the very early 2000s most corps switched form bugles to trumpets, tubas, etc.

My understanding of a bugle is that there they are a valveless (occasionally 1 valve or even rarer 2 valves) brass instruments that have a limited note set due to one note per partial. Listening to old recordings it doesn't sound like corps played music limited by bugles so obviously they used more notes than just one per partial.

Also, I've generally seen people say that they think the bugles were better for corps and fewer others who say that the switch has been better for the sound of the hornline. Any info you could give me to understand more of corps history with bugles? Thanks.

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Unfortunately for you, a drummer made it in first. Allow me to ramble without merit ....

The G bugles have a brighter, more direct sound than the B-flat brass instruments. In the hands of a very good brass section, it's a very in-your-face sound. Unfortunately, they're (I guess) harder to play in tune, because most of the time they could be considered assault weapons. Personally, I like the warmer sound of B-flat instruments, but for someone who came to drum corps before the change, it just doesn't sound right.

How's that, actual brass guys?

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Yes bugles started with no valves. I'm sure you can find Hystory of the Bugle on Drum Corps Wiki but yes a Horizontal valve was added later then a Valve and Slide, then Valve and Rotar, then 2 valves then 3 valves until 2000.

I played a 2 valve King Baritone when I marched in the 80's.

The Only current makers of 3 valve G bugles are Kanstul and Dynasty.

As far as G bugles having a brighter tone? I'd have to compair side by side. I currently play a Dynasty Baritone Bugle and I think it has a rather warm sound. I guess Soprano bugles can be bright and brash but so can a Trumpet.

What I do know is that the sound of a G bugle line would take your breath away and pound on your chest with a wall of sound. I have not felt that since Bb/F lines took over Drum Corps.

People keep saying Bb/F has improved the sound of Drum Corps. I think any corps today could sound just as good with G Bugles plus they would knock you out of your shoes.

What may be going on is that the Instructors and Corps Members are more sophisticated today and view G bugles as beneath them to work with.

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As far as I can tell Corps may be putting out more sound than when Bb/F was 1st introduced. Maybe the Manufacturers are tweeking the Field brass for better projection I don't really know. I do know Crown has the Sweetest sound of any Corps on the field today. I don't know if thats because of the way their being instructed or the brand of Brass they are playing maybe both.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if a Corps fielded G Bugles again.

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I feel like instruments play a big role. I'm not a fan of the old bugle days due to the intonation problems and brash tone. It makes me cringe and that's not good. Today's B-flat instruments are warmer in my opinion. But even that can depends on your arranging and brand. Take Cavies for instance. I've always felt Cavies have had a weak hornline due to their too heavy sound and that's mainly arrangement. I have disliked Phantom since they switched to Jupiter because I feel Jupiter doesn't have the sense of control a Xeno possesses. Don't get me started on Kings. But Crown has a great combination. A great set of instruments, a legendary arranger in Michael Klesh and to round it off the Harloff Brothers. That holy trinity is why Crown has a much warmer and in tune sound that what I feel you could ever find pre-2002.

Opinions of a brass guy.

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As far as I can tell Corps may be putting out more sound than when Bb/F was 1st introduced. Maybe the Manufacturers are tweeking the Field brass for better projection I don't really know. I do know Crown has the Sweetest sound of any Corps on the field today. I don't know if thats because of the way their being instructed or the brand of Brass they are playing maybe both.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if a Corps fielded G Bugles again.

I have always been curious what this would sound like. I think it would be super cool if there was a corps (like Troopers) who went the classic route every year. BUT I know it is super impractical because of cost and time to teach. I think I was lucky enough to hear Pioneer when they still used Bugles and I was blown away. They weren't even a full sized corps.

Does anyone know if there are All Age or DCA groups that use bugles still? Perhaps we can still get a taste of the sweet nectar somewhere in the states.

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This topic will really show my ignorance, but that's why I'm asking.

Drum Corps can be traced back to end of WWI (yep - a single I after WW) so lot of history not to know about. So no ignorance, just a lot of knowledge unlearned (so far...).

A lot of corps were created after end of World War I as the American Legion (started 1919), VFW and other groups (churchs, etc) got the idea to create musical groups to give their members something to do and prompt the Post and town. There was a LOT of surplus Army straight (no valves) bugles and drums left over after the war and sinve AL/VFW were military based groups, forming corps to march and play was a good fit.

After a while the buglers wanted to be more musical so a horizontal valve/piston was added. We then went to a slide with the piston, then piston/rotor (my day), 2 valves and finally 3 valves. But kicker was the horns were still called bugles until about 10 years ago. Along with voices being called sops, baris (starting 1930s), contras (starting 1960s) etc. So trying to use "bugle" as a Bb or G thing doesn't quite fit.

As far as volume or tone I go to DCA where some corps still play G and have an untrained ear. If I notice any difference in tone it could also be due to manufacturer so I don't really try to pick out any differences. Also never played a Bb Valve instrument (played trombone) but have played/own different types of G Baris and each had a different sound. Last horn I played with a corps was a 3v G Kanstul which had a different sound from the 2v Dynasty (saw Kansans post) I used before we went to all 3v.

Have some recordings going back to 1950 (single valve only and no Bass Baris/Contras) and world of difference in sound... :w00t:

PS - Didn't know most of this until I bought "History of Drum Corps Vol I" almost 30 years after I first joined a corps. Too bad no Internet BITD. :doh:

Edited by JimF-LowBari
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It would be interesting to see what would happen if a Corps fielded G Bugles again.

You mean competitively, or just what would it sound like? To hear the old 2-valves in real time, check out the Marine Drum and Bugle Corps, still doin' it in the key of G.

Fred O.

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